Is the Certificate the same as the Parish Record?

Discussion in 'BMD Certificates' started by kernowmaid, Aug 28, 2022.

  1. kernowmaid

    kernowmaid Well-Known Member

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    What exactly do I get if I order a Marriage Certificate?
    Is it a photocopy of the entry in the Parish Record?

    One of the graves in Nanpean (Cornwall) is for Elizabeth Jane BULLOCK nee PHILLIPS died 31 July 1930, age 62.
    So born c1867/1868. The obvious one is Q3 1867 St Austell (mmn WILLIAMS)

    In the 1871 census there's a 3-yr old EJ with Richard & Ann (nee WILLIAMS) PHILLIPS.
    In 1881 there's a 13-yr old EJ with Richard & Ann PHILLIPS.

    (Meanwhile, carpenter James PHILLIPS & wife Anna Mary (nee MELLOW) have a daughter Jane, born 15 October 1871 (source 1939 Reg.)
    She marries a MARTYN in 1891 and dies in 1946.)

    Elizabeth Jane PHILLIPS marries John BULLOCK 18 August 1887, age 20.
    So born 1867/1868?

    BUT the Parish Record (on Family Search) shows father JAMES (deceased) Occupation: Carpenter.

    I am convinced that this is wrong - but can I prove it?
    If I order the Certificate, what will I receive?

    (Not family, just a grave in the local churchyard. Is it worth £11?)

    Jane
     
  2. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    It will be a copy of the entry in the Register held at the General Register Office (GRO)
    Have a look at this one in my Media: https://genealogy-specialists.com/media/dscf0245-jpg.373/
     
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  3. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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  4. kernowmaid

    kernowmaid Well-Known Member

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    Yes. But where does that entry come from?

    What actually happened at an 1887 wedding?
    Did the vicar write the entry in the Parish Register and was it signed (or marked) by the bride, groom & witnesses?

    Did the vicar then send a transcript to the bishop/register office/wherever?

    What piece of paper does the GRO possess?

    Jane
    (I'm trying to not be pedantic, but I am so sure that this woman's father is not the carpenter James. Just want to understand where the error occurred.)
     
  5. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Remember that errors were made on marriage records with prior persons being written as a spouse of another couple or spouse or groom not kowing parent, or remembering another older sibling as father. Or just plain imagination where required.
    edit-sorry interruptions.
    Did you check censuses after that marriage date or later records which may have named othersibs or parents in later years?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 28, 2022
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  6. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    If it is of any help, James Phillips the carpenter died in 1883, but his daughters are with their widowed mother in 1891, leaving only Elizabeth Jane (who's father was far from dead when she married) as the candidate to marry John Bullock, and they can be found on all the following census, still in and around Nanpean.
    The father for John Bullock on the m/c is correct.
    Does the church still have its original registers which you could check?
     
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  7. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    The certificate that is in my media is what you would receive from the GRO.

    Short answer: yes.

    yes, partly

    In his book "People Count: A History of the General Register Office", the author M. Nissel states:
    A marriage certificate (retained by the married couple) and two registers are completed for Church of England weddings. One register of the marriages is kept by the Church. When the other register has been filled with entries (sometimes many years after some of the weddings took place) it is sent by the Minister to the Superintendent Registrar of the District in which the Church is situated. However, every 3 months the Minister must also prepare a further copy, from his Register, of any entries of marriage taking place in the last quarter and send that copy directly to the Registrar General.

    Once the GRO receive the returns mentioned above, they in turn are transcribed into their registers.

    See previous answer. ;)

    Jane
    I fully understand as.....

    I have a copy from the GRO of the marriage certificate between a set of several times great grandparents and the transcriber has mixed up the first name of the vicar with that of the bride's father's first name. They were transposed. The entry was corrected, though, and appears on the copy that I hold.

    An entry is only as good as the accuracy of the person who transcribed it.
     
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  8. Sandiep

    Sandiep Successfully Supports Searches!

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    there is a tree Bullock Family Tree on Ancestry now I know not always correct but they seem related say parents Richard phillips and Ann Williams
    Elizabeth born
    BIRTH SEP 1867 • St Stephen in Brannel, Cornwall

    DEATH SEPT 1930 • St Austell,

    Marriage
    18 August 1887 • St Stephen in Brannel, Cornwall
    Day Month 18-Aug Year 1887 Parish Or Reg District Stephen in Brannel, St. Groom Fn John Groom Sn BULLOCK Groom Age 20 Groom Residence St Stephens Groom Condition bachelor Groom Rank Profession clay labourer Groom Signed / Marked (S/M) S


    John Bullock
    (1867–)

    the 1911 census seems to confirm all this as well
     
  9. kernowmaid

    kernowmaid Well-Known Member

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    Thank you one and all.
    I shall save my pennies, and put this down to human error.
    But the next time I'm at the Records Office I shall ask whether I can see the ORIGINAL of the Marriage record.

    Jane
     
  10. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Excellent idea! ;)
     

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