James Thomas Brooks and Martha Maidman

Discussion in 'London' started by annabel, Jan 16, 2020.

  1. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    When James Thomas Brooks married Martha Maidman 25 Dec 1881 at St Peter Hammersmith, he said his father was George, a builder

    I have never found James in a census, but in 1898 he was in Kensington workhouse with his children Florence b 1895, George b 1886, Norah b 1888 and Margaret b 1891. Strangely their mother is listed as living in Shepherds Bush. This gives James's birth as 1854, and there is a corresponding birth in Lambeth which gives mmn as Lock, which is what I was hoping for. I really would like to know which Miss Lock his mother was

    But- in 1891 Norah is described as a niece of Charlotte E Smith b 1851 St Giles, living in Soho. She is with her sister Maud, who I had previously found, RG12; Piece: 210; Folio: 135; Page: 61
    She's also with the family in 1901 RG13; Piece: 140; Folio: 17; Page: 26

    Looking at Charlotte's children, her maiden name was Brooks which fits, except it appears (on certificates people have posted) that she was born in 1848 and her parents were Henry William Brooks a house painter, and Elizabeth Davis

    I cannot find any mention of James Thomas to link him as being a sibling to Charlotte. Is anyone able to find a clue to what is going on here?
     
  2. Blackmogs

    Blackmogs Moderator. General Dogs(cats)body. Staff Member

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    I have found a couple of census entries that might at a squeeze be James, living with father George who is a plumber. 1861 Rg 9; 50;107;15 and 1871 RG10; 665,135;30. This show James mother as Mary ann. I found the marriage of George the plumber to Mary Ann Swinden in Southwark in 1849, George is a Widower and she a spinster. Where do you get Lock from? I was trying to find the MMN of William J and or Maude but have to go out. Will have a stab later.
     
  3. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    The birth I'm looking at is James Thomas Brooks 2nd Q 1854, Lambeth. The GRO says MMN Lock.
    I saw the George and Mary you did, but I don't understand her name of Swinden. There is a baptism of a James Brookes at Lambeth St Mary in Aug 1856 with those names. I know its 2 years out but it could have been a late baptism? George is a plumber and they live at East Street which is exactly where my Lock family lived.

    So it fits, but it doesn't :confused:
     
  4. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    There is this birth reg

    upload_2020-1-16_16-34-42.png
     
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  5. Blackmogs

    Blackmogs Moderator. General Dogs(cats)body. Staff Member

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    hmmmmmmm Maude E's birth reg seems to be Horan
     

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  6. Blackmogs

    Blackmogs Moderator. General Dogs(cats)body. Staff Member

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    Being slow here (having had 2 hours of french conversation class my brain is frozen) do you think the census entries I found are your George and Mary Ann but you are not sure which baptism fits?
    Ok just checked the 1856 bap has mother Swindon so it is the one I found in the two census. I am completely stumped on why the Brooks children with Aunty Charlotte have a totally different MMN.
     
  7. Blackmogs

    Blackmogs Moderator. General Dogs(cats)body. Staff Member

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    In the household you found with Charlotte E Smith, there is a James shown as her son who might be this one. And Sarah her duaghter is also MMN Brooks
     

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  8. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    It looks like the baptism of James Brookes is the same as the birth you found with mmn Swindon to me. So I think it might be a red herring. I think I'm going to have to get the certificate for James Thomas Brooks to sort this out.
     
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  9. Blackmogs

    Blackmogs Moderator. General Dogs(cats)body. Staff Member

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    I will try to find Charlotte's birth reg which would help no end.
     
  10. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    I may be here to muddy the waters with an entirely different family but ...

    When James Thomas Brooks married Martha Maidman 25 Dec 1881 at St Peter Hammersmith, he said his father was George, a builder

    Baptism 2 Sep. 1858 Kingston upon Thames of James Brooks, b.23 July 1854- Pts James a builder & Adelaide
    Also Catharine b.1856 & Alfred John B. 1858

    Perhaps his father had died & young James didn't remember the name correctly.
    -------------------------

    RG10; Piece: 678; Folio: 107; Page: 12
    1871 census. Robert St. Lambeth
    a James b.1854 Lambeth with G'Parents Henry & Eliza Brooks, -Henry a butcher. Son Henry 21 building app. [I think]
    Henry -17 fish monger.
    BROOKS, HENRY x LOCK
    GRO Reference: 1850 J Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 04 Page 242
    BROOKS, JAMES THOMAS x LOCK
    GRO Reference: 1854 J Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 361


    In 1861 these were both sons of Henry snr.
    RG 9; Piece: 363; Folio: 112; Page: 20;
    Becomes puzzlingin earlier years, but-

    Name: Eliza Lock
    Gender: Female
    Record Type: Marriage
    Marriage Date: 7 Aug 1838
    Marriage Place: Holy Trinity, Newington, Southwark, England
    Father: John Lock - farmer
    Spouse: Henry Brooks -potter his father- Thomas a butcher
    Register Type: Parish Register.
    one Wit's Jane White the other may be J. Brown or anything else.
     
  11. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Baptism 2 Sep. 1858 Kingston upon Thames of James Brooks, b.23 July 1854- Pts James a builder & Adelaide.

    This family is found here in 1871
    1871- James & Adelaide Brooks Kingston.
    Class: RG10; Piece: 860; Folio: 52; Page: 39
     
  12. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    Thanks Wendy. I was wondering about James not knowing his father too. These are very interesting, but the only thing is that in 1871 it's not James that's the grandson but the next one down, William

    I've ordered a PDF of James Thomas Brooks birth. We shall see if that helps
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2020
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  13. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    I think I've found Martha in 1911 in Notting Hill with Florence and a new child John born Hammersmith in 1901, after James Thomas came out of the workhouse presumably. She says she's married, but of course James Thomas is not there RG14; Piece: 222
     
  14. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    I've just had a thought that James married Martha in Dec 1881. I wonder if he's at the same address in the census that year. But I can't quite read it, it Looks like Fulham ? but what does it say underneath? Screenshot 2020-01-17 at 09.06.30.png
     
  15. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Yep, I realised later that it was William as G'son. ;)

    My eyes are a bit pst it at this hour but P.... Place
     
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  16. janetbooth

    janetbooth Top Dog Stalwart

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    Fulham, Hammersmith St Paul's?? The Banns for their marriage were read at Hammersmith St Peter's and show that James Thomas was of St Paul's.

    Janet
     
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  17. Blackmogs

    Blackmogs Moderator. General Dogs(cats)body. Staff Member

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    Paradise Place?
     
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  18. Blackmogs

    Blackmogs Moderator. General Dogs(cats)body. Staff Member

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    Mother's Maiden Surname:
    BROOKS,
    JOHN HENRY MAIDMAN
    GRO Reference: 1899 J Quarter in FULHAM Volume 01A Page 217
     
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  19. Blackmogs

    Blackmogs Moderator. General Dogs(cats)body. Staff Member

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    I've scrolled all through "Place", Fulham addresses for the 1881 to see whether there is anything that looks like something which would match to the marriage cert. Nada. Looking at the MC again I still think it might be Paradise.
     
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  20. burt

    burt Where there's a will there's a way!

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    The word after Fulham was difficult, but I now see it as 'Fulham Road
    St Pauls & Paradise Place'.
     
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