John Carruthers 1882

Discussion in 'Welcome to Our Genealogy Forum' started by Clare Walton, Jan 7, 2022.

  1. Clare Walton

    Clare Walton New Member

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    I'm looking for help on how to find out more information about John Carruthers 1882, born Dumfries-shire, Canonbie. Was a miner Plenmeller Colliery. Lodger - Main Street, Haltwhistle, Northumberland. 1921 census.
    I can't find any info on his date of birth? Parents? And death?
    I believe John Carruthers to be my Great Grandfather. His name was not on my Grandma’s birth certificate, other than Carruthers.
    Any help much appreciated. Thanks.
     
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  2. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    I saw 3 John Carruthers in trees on M Heritage. born respectively 1824, 1825, 1826 from Canonbie.
    1825 was in 1851 a Woollen Frame Work Knitter
    1826 ?
    1824 -pts William & Agnes nee Beattie. No further info. other than 8 siblings.
    .............
    1 John Carruthers b. 1822 -Ruthwell, Dumfries-shire, Scotland
    Pts b. 1740-50s.- Mother died1794. highly unlikely. Youngest sibling b. 1813 d.1844
    Sorry, best I can do there.
     
  3. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Hello Clare - welcome to the forum. :)

    Have you had a rummage for John in other censuses at all?
     
  4. janetbooth

    janetbooth Top Dog Stalwart

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    Looking at the 1891 Scottish census transcriptions on Ancestry, there are 3 records for a John CARRUTHERS born c1883 in Dumfriesshire:

    John CARRUTHERS born c1881 at Dumfries who is shown as the grandson of Benjamin & Mary IRVING who are living at High Street Dumfries

    John CARRUTHERS born c1882 at Annan who is shown as a Boarder in the household of Agnes CURRIE in Annan. He is still living with her as a Boarder in the 1901 census and shown as a Stonemason Builder.

    John G CARRUTHERS who is born c1882 at Tundergarth and is living with his father William CARRUTHERS in Tundergarth. This John G CARRUTHERS may well have died in Scotland as there is a burial record shown for a John G CARRUTHERS at Bigg Cemetery, Lockerbie on 31 October 1939 and a National Probate Calendar entry for him (available to view on Ancestry) showing he was of Greystone, Annan.

    Is your grandmother still living, or can you give us some details regarding her which may enable us to trace her back. Do you have a marriage certificate for her, for example, which should verify the details of her father and his profession.

    Scotlands People is a good website for finding baptismal/registration records for people born in Scotland and you should hopefully find details of the John CARRUTHERS born Canonbie there.

    Janet
     
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  5. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    My apologies Clare- I totally messed up that birth date. :oops: :rolleyes:
     
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  6. Clare Walton

    Clare Walton New Member

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  7. Clare Walton

    Clare Walton New Member

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    My Great Grandma was Alice Armstrong 1881-1954, Haltwhistle, Northumberland.
    My Grandma Mary Joyce "Carruthers" Porter 1915-1997. Married John E Walton 1912-1981.
    My Grandma's sister, also had same father, Ethel A Porter. 1917-2012.
    His christian name was not on birth certificate.
    He was a lodger 1921 census, so was around for a while to father 2 children. (my Great Grandma being a bit of a woman!!) But he then disappeared? He wasn't part of my Grandma's up bringing.
    My uncles say that all they remember being told is he relocated possibly Coventry or Derbyshire & had another family?
     
  8. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Okay... I am a tad confused. :confused:

    If your Grandmother and her sister had the surname of PORTER when they were born, your Great Grandmother Alice would have married a chap named PORTER. (I see that there is a marriage that took place in 1904 between an Alice ARMSTRONG and John PORTER in Newcastle registration district)
    Therefore, how could a chap named CARRUTHERS be their father as well?

    What had happened to John PORTER?

    I see that Alice's marital status is shown as "married" in both the 1911 census and the 1939 Register. :headbang:
     
  9. Clare Walton

    Clare Walton New Member

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    I assume they just took my Great Grandma’s surname of PORTER. But Carruthers was defo fathers name. I obtained a copy of the birth certificate. If I can find it I can upload a photo of it.
     

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  10. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Certainly a bit of a mystery. ;)
     
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  11. Clare Walton

    Clare Walton New Member

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    That's an understatement!!
     
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  12. Clare Walton

    Clare Walton New Member

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    Yes I have looked at these. There seems to be a lot of grandchildren with different surnames living with Benjamin & Mary Irving?
    Why do you think this is? I have tried to find birth info for each of them but can't appear to find anything.
     
  13. Andromeda

    Andromeda Well-Known Member

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    There is a rather odd service record that might be worth looking into further. It's for John Carruthers (aka ADGAR) of the DLI, service number 15909 & 39431 (4/39431)

    Enlisted in Sep 1914 under the name John ADGAR, no 15909 saying he was born Dumfries, Dumfriesshire c1883 and was a miner. Discharged 1914 as unlikely to become an efficient soldier. Re-enlisted 1916 as John Carruthers, widower, of Durham Street, Sherburn Hill. Discharged again 1917. Address given in 1917 was Back West Terrace, Coxhoe. Two children named – Agnes Amos b1905 & John b1902. Both born as Carruthers mmn Robson.

    This is where it gets complicated! On a casualty form his Next of Kin listed is as Hannah Robson of Coxhoe, his Grandmother, and he is said to be single & born Sunderland! Elsewhere a sister is named as Agnes Cruddace of Westoe Street, South Shields, which is also said to be his address. I suspect that Cruddace is meant to be Carruthers!

    I think he is probably the John Carruthers in Coxhoe in 1891, aged 10, with parents John & Isabella and various siblings, including Agnes born c1873. John Sr is a Quarryman. All born Scotland except the youngest sibling – also Isabella – born 1886 with the mmn EDGAR.

    John CARRUTHERS & Isabella EDGAR married in 1869 in Caerlaverock, which is Dumfries. In 1881 the family is in Alpine Street, Urr, Dalbeattie, Kirkcudbrightshire, and John is under 1. There is a birth registration in 1880, Dalbeattie for a John Carruthers.

    In 1901 he can be found in Coxhoe as Jack Carruthers aged 21, Coal Miner born Ireland! He is boarding with Annie Robson aged 52 and her children Hannah 21, John 16 & Matthew 9. John Carruthers married Hannah Robson 1901, Durham (Register Office), & there is a death of a Hannah Carruthers in 1906, aged 26.

    By 1911 ‘Mrs Robson’, her sons Mat(t)hew & John (and his wife & child) and the two Carruthers children – Agnes & John – are living together in Coxhoe, but there is no trace of John/Jack Carruthers/Adgar/Edgar.

    The above may be completely unconnected to your man however, as there is an article in the Newcastle Evening Chronicle 4 Oct 1913 mentioning what is definitely him. Briefly, he was on the train from Carlisle on 30 Aug, having been to Silloth, and had to be removed as he was drunk. He was named as John Carruthers, miner, Main Street, Haltwhistle, and his companion was William Bell of Meadow Terrace.

    Looking at Meadow Terrace in 1911 there was a family named Bell, but the only ‘William’ was George William born c1904. I can’t look up the 1921 without paying, but from the free search it looks like the same man there in 1921.

    ADDED: Doh...! In all that searching I completely forgot his PoB was Canonbie, not Dumfries. Sorry!!! Well at least maybe you can rule the Coxhoe man out :D
     
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  14. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Isn’t Canonbie in the local area of Dumfries and Galloway?
     
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  15. Andromeda

    Andromeda Well-Known Member

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    It's in Dumfriesshire, but Canonbie and Dalbeattie are 40+ miles apart.
     
  16. Clare Walton

    Clare Walton New Member

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    I saw the news article of the incident on the train when I first started looking further for 'Carruthers'. As there was a few Carruthers popping up but mostly accounted for apart from this one & 2 others.
    I've been waiting for 1921 census to see if he was named at the Main Street address.
    I got in touch with the news paper archives but they didn't hold any other info other than was was in the article.
    I believe this John Carruthers to be my Great Grandfather but its a mystery of his birth & up bringing & of his where abouts after he left Haltwhistle & his death.
     
  17. Clare Walton

    Clare Walton New Member

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    This is so frustrating I'm having sleepless nights! lol. Might have to give myself a break from it for a while.
     

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