John Congreve aka John Forrest

Discussion in 'Mariners & Watermen' started by mugwortismy cat, Apr 14, 2021.

  1. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    another offshoot of my Bartram family (this branch preferred the BATTRAM spelling, though some records do have Bertram)

    Hannah BATTRAM married John Congreve in London in 20 Jul 1838

    first child John, born Dec 1838 in Suffolk, I have presumed at Timworth near Bury St Edmonds where her parents were living (having moved the family there from Billingford in Norfolk), it's registered in the right RD

    second child James, born 10 Sep 1844 at East Ham, Essex

    Subsequent children born in Perthshire, Scotland

    I've found John senior in East Ham in 1841 (mistakenly says he is born Ireland rather than Scotland) but no sign of Hannah and John junior

    By 1850 they are in Perth, John senior is a vintner, later a publican. I haven't found Hannah's death yet, but he is widowed by 1881 and living at his daughter Amelia's. She is the wife of William Young, and later handles the estate of both Johns

    John senior dies in 1886.

    John junior, in 1854 age 15, is indentured to Andrew Greig to serve on the ship Louisa for four years

    My next definite sighting of John is in 1897 when Amelia handles his estate. He is noted as also using the name John Forrest, and is a seaman or ship's officer, He is said to have died about 1 Jan 1888 and I've not been able to find out where, there is no place given (perhaps at sea somewhere)

    I've found a Master's Certificate in the name of John Forrest issued in 1874 which I am sure is him, birthplace is given as Bury St Edmunds, and one address in Perth (crossed through), with a second address 89 Burdett road, Bow

    I did see a record of a John Congreve, assistant engineer, doing a run from a ship, probably hiding from people he owed money to, according to the captain. At the time I couldn't be sure it was him and didn't make a proper note of it. Hopefully I can find it again and see if it fits the timeline I have, I think it was around 1861

    Any help finding more will be gratefully received
     
  2. Jellylegs

    Jellylegs Well-Known Member

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    FMP have a baptism transcript for John Congreve to parents John (a labourer) and Hannah on 20 Dec 1838 at St Andrew, Timworth, Suffolk. Date of birth given as 12 Dec.
     
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  3. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Thanks @Jellylegs

    Well I can't refind that record of the assistant engineer who did a runner, at least not as John Congreve, so it must have been John Forrest and I don't think it's likely to be my man

    [edit] Yes, it's a John Forrest, first service date 2 Aug 1859 (his indenture on the Louisa was due to finish on 13 Mar 1859) Looks like he was serving on the James Watt from 30 Sep 1859 until 7 Jun 63, then at Devonport. Was supposed to take up position on the Liverpool 30 Apr 1863 but never showed up.

    I'm not sure it would be him, and am ignorant as to whether this record is Royal or Merchant Navy ..
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2021
  4. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    : RG 9; Piece: 4517; Folio: 23
    Name: John Forrest
    Age: 23
    Estimated Birth Year: 1838
    Relation: A B Seaman (Seaman)
    Where born: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
    Civil Parish: Vessels
    Town: Sunderland Dock
    County/Island: Durham
    appears to be married
    ................
     
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  5. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    This may also be him.

    England, United Grand Lodge of England Freemason Membership Registers, 1751-1921
    SOCIETY & EMPLOYMENT DIRECTORIES

    Name: John Forrest
    Gender: Male
    Initiation Age: 32
    Year Range: 1768-1813 Apr. 13
    Profession: Mariner
    Lodge: Sea Captains
    Lodge Location: Sunderland
    Folio Number: 151
    D Lodge Number: 177D
    E Lodge Number: 144E
    F Lodge Number: 129F
     
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  6. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Thank you very much @Ma-dotcom excellent finds. Haven't had time to follow up properly, was back to work today
     
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  7. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    The Mason thingy isn't him, after a bit of squinting and a magnification I see the entries are from 1780s

    Found an entry in the Malta Lodge for the other John Forrest of the 'James Watt', now extra sure he's the wrong man as he is Royal Navy, and mine is Merchant Navy
     
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  8. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Sorry Christel, I missed that date :(
     
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  9. Andromeda

    Andromeda Member

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    Did you page backwards on this? It lists all his ships from 19 Oct 1860 - 27 May 1874, and confirms his DoB as 12 Dec 1838. To further confirm him as your guy, he was unable to produce discharge certificates for 1854-1860, no doubt because they'll have been under the 'wrong' name of Congreve.

    Many of the ships later he captained were registered in places like Hong Kong, Shanghai & Japan, so its possible he died somewhere like that.
     
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  10. Andromeda

    Andromeda Member

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    Per Scotlands People, Hannah died in 1875, Perth

    CONGREVE, HANNAH aged 63 mmn CAVE
    1875
    387/ 337
    Perth
     
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  11. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Foolishly I didn't, I went one page forward but not backwards, although I often do that I forgot this time. Thank you for pointing it out :)
     
  12. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Thank you, mmn should be CAGE but it's close enough ;)
     
  13. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    This also confirms the 1861 census that @Ma-dotcom found :D
     
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