John Gravenor 1881

Discussion in 'British Census' started by Chimp, Aug 21, 2016.

  1. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Looking for John Gravenor in 1881. (also looking for a marriage.)

    1891 census
    RG12 Piece 4582 Folio 54 Page 1
    Dutlas Village, Beguildy, Knighton, Radnorshire

    John Gravner 1858 Agricultural Labourer Shropshire, England
    Mary Gravner 1868 Stowe, Shropshire, England
    John Gravner 1884 Shropshire, England
    Percival Gravner 1886 Beguildy, Radnorshire, Wales
    Walter Gravner 1889 Beguildy, Radnorshire, Wales

    Mary dies July 1896, 2 months after giving birth to a son Sydney. Sydney dies when he was only 14 days old.

    John married Elizabeth Bebb in Beguildy on 7th July 1897.

    1901 census
    RG13 Piece number 2507 Folio 26 Page 17
    Diddlebury, Ludlow, Shropshire

    John Gravener 1858 Shropshire, England
    Elizabeth Gravener 1879 Bettws, Radnorshire, Wales
    Walter Gravener 1889 Beguildy, Radnorshire, Wales
    William S Gravener 1898 Beguildy, Radnorshire, Wales
    Edith A Gravener 1899 Beguildy, Radnorshire, Wales
    Agnes J Gravener 1900 Beguildy, Radnorshire, Wales

    1911 census
    RG14 Piece No. 33655
    Duthlas Knighton, Beguildy, Radnorshire

    John Gravenor 1858 Salop Bishops Castle
    Elizabeth Gravenor 1878 Montgomery Bettws Cadowen
    William Gravenor 1897 Radnor Beguildy
    Agnes Gravenor 1900 Radnor Beguildy
    Harold Gravenor 1904 Salop Culminton
    Ethel Gravenor 1909 Salop Halford
    Leonard Gravenor 1910 Salop Halford
     
  2. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    There is an Evan Gravenor age 22 (1859) gardener with his parents and siblings on RG11/2616/10/11 in Ashford Carbonell, Ludow

    His father James came from Knighton!
     
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  3. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    That's the trouble with Welsh names. John can also be Evan. I have no way of knowing if it is him.

    On his marriage to Elizabeth Bebb in 1897 there is no fathers name for him.
     
  4. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    John Gravenor married Mary Eliza Edwards 26/5/1884 at Clun & Bryn
    The m/c is on FMP but it might eliminate my post #2, as his father's name is entered as Mary an crossed through!
     
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  5. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Have just been sent a copy. I do have FMP but I'm blowed if I could find the marriage.

    I wonder if John was illegitimate and his mother was in fact Mary Gravenor?
     
  6. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    Good thinking - if that's the case then it looks like Mary was illegitimate too :rolleyes:
     
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  7. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    They know how to confuse :eek:
     
  8. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    I've tried everything I can think of, but with no luck. Nothing in the papers either :(
     
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  9. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Thanks Ann & MollyMay for all your help. I had been at this for hours and got nowhere.
     
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  10. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    If you put Mary Gravenor b1835 Shropshire in FMP's 'search all records' you can see her bap, in 1841 and 1851 and a then a possible marriage to George Clee in 1859.
    I have found Mary and George in 1861 &1871, but no sign of a John (Gravenor/Clee) with them:(
     
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  11. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Neither can I.
     
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  12. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    I tried Elizabeth Thomas (who is with Mary Gravenor in 1841) in case he was with her - nothing, zilch, zero for either:mad:

    He certainly is hiding in 1871 & 81
     
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  13. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    At John's marriage in 1884 might it be that his Father was dead -also that of his bride- so Mothers names were put instead? then crossed out because they weren't the Father.

    This here Evan son of James & Maria aso had a brother John b, 1855. He is here with the family in 1871 & 1881
    1871
    James Gravenor 54
    Maria Gravenor 46
    James Gravenor 22
    John Gravenor 16 Where born: Ashford Carbonell, Shropshire, England
    Evan Gravenor 14
    Emma Gravenor 10
    Fanny Gravenor 8
    Henry Gravenor 6
    RG10; Piece: 2726; Folio: 7; Page: 7;

    1881 his name seems to have changed as has Mother.
    Father: James Gravenor
    Mother: Ann M. Gravenor
    RG11; Piece: 2616; Folio: 10; Page: 11
    Name:
    James Gravenor
    Age: 26
    Estimated birth year: abt 1855
    Relationship to Head: Son
    Father: James Gravenor
    Mother: Ann M. Gravenor
    Gender: Male
    Where born: Ashford Carbonel, Shropshire, England
    ...............
    Sorry very long day, I may be seeing what's not required. Eyes need to sleep.

    p.s. could not find a birht for a John in 1858 in Shropshire, Derby yes but not Salop.
     
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  14. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Just an update on John Gravenor.

    Think he has been found in earlier censuses

    1861 RG09, Piece 1840, Folio 31, Page 3
    Village of Whitcot, Whitcot, Clun, Shropshire, England

    William Hamer, Head, Married, 44, 1817, Agricultural Labourer, Mainstone, Shropshire
    Elizabeth Hamer, Wife, Married, 43, 1818, Lydbury North, Shropshire
    John Gravner, Nurse Child, 3, 1858, Bishops Castle, Shropshire

    FMP has the surname of William as Hama and John as Gamer :rolleyes:

    1871 RG10, Piece 2729, Folio 8, Page 8
    Newport Street, Clun, Shropshire, England

    William Hamar, Head, Married, 56, 1815, Ag. Lab., Mainstone, Shropshire
    Elizabeth Hamar, Wife, Married, 54, 1817, Leisty, Clun, Shropshire
    John Hamar, Son, 13, 1858, Bishops Castle, Shropshire

    On John's marriage instead of a father on the marriage cert he has entered his mother's name, Mary Grovenor.

    Elizabeth Hamer nee Black/Bluck was born at Down, Lydbury North, Shropshire.

    In 1835 there was a Mary Gravenor also born at Down, She was the illegitimate daughter of Elizabeth Gravenor. In 1851 Mary Gravenor is in the household of Hammer (this is Hamer in later censues) Mary married in 1859.

    Assuming that Mary had John and gave him to William and Elizabeth Hamer.

    Still can't find the birth for John though and he is missing in 1881 but by this time Elizabeth Hamer had died and William had remarried.

    Clear as mud :eek:
     
  15. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    I wonder?
    RG11/2619/59/12
    John Hamer b1859 Bs Castle - a waggoner at LLynaven, Clun for farmer John Thomas (b1847 Llanbister)
     
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  16. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    I saw that one, I'm glad someone else thinks it could be him.
     
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  17. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    Great minds :D
     
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