John Keech [September 1768-September 1856].

Discussion in 'Other Conflicts' started by The Artful Dodger, May 18, 2015.

  1. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    In the 1851 census, John is an 83 year old patient at the Greenwich Hospital and he is a Widower.

    There are 2 medal citations and I wonder if there are any available online sources for specific members of the U.K. Navy regarding the following events:
    Event - Battle of Trafalgar
    Ship - Ajax
    Award - Naval General Service Medal
    and
    Event - Napoleonic Wars
    Ship - Ajax
    Award - Naval General Service Medal.

    At the time of these Campaigns, he was an A.B. seaman. I am aware that the Battle of Trafalgar was in October 1805 and that the Napoleonic Wars were fought during the years 1803-1815. She was lost in a fire on the night of 14 February 1807, during the Dardanelles Operation. He was one of about 380 members of the crew that were rescued and again I wonder if he was injured and then hospitalised or whether he continued to serve in the Navy

    His wife - Ann - died Jul-Sep q. 1838 in Bradpole, Dorset. I don't have her death cert. so cannot tell if the informant was John or not and since I can't find any reference To John in the 1841 census, I am curious as to whether he was hospitalised in 1841.

    Any ideas on how to proceed would be much appreciated.
     
  2. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    Could he be the John Keast age 75 in Barrack Street Stoke Damerel?
    HO107 p274 b3 f17 p28
    It is ticked that he was born in Devon and is with the Putt family and of Ind.means
     
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  3. GrannyBarb

    GrannyBarb Custodian of the Family Accounts

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    Reference:ADM 6/236/42
    Lists John Keech as one of many...
    Greenwich out-pensioners applying for admission into Greenwich Hospital as in-pensioners (after service in the Royal Navy, Royal Marines or the Naval Dockyards)
    Date: 1829 November 6
    TNA holds the records, which haven't been digitised, but they will make a copy for you... probably for a fee.
    http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C9966836
     
  4. GrannyBarb

    GrannyBarb Custodian of the Family Accounts

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  5. GrannyBarb

    GrannyBarb Custodian of the Family Accounts

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  6. GrannyBarb

    GrannyBarb Custodian of the Family Accounts

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    ADM 171/8 has the images for Nominal roll of surviving officers and men entitled to clasps of the Naval General Service Medal for actions between 1793 and 1827.

    It's free, but you have to scroll through the page images, and I don't know if there will be any more info than you already have.

    http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C974978

    (I need to look through these for my Royal Navy and Royal Marine guys.)
     
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  7. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    Could be, but I'm not sure. The age isn't too far out based upon 1841 criteria and also that he was likely of Ind. means, however he wasn't born in Devon.

    He was born in Bridport, Dorset and was baptised 28 December 1768 - to parents, John and Mary Keech.

    He married Ann Ackerman 22 May 1792 in Bridport and he signed, while she made her mark.
     
  8. Sis

    Sis Rootles out resources!

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    Gosh @GrannyBarb you was certainly on a roll. Well done!:D
     
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  9. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    Hey Barb. you've pinpointed his service from when Alloted [1797] to 28 July 1804, when he was discharged from HMS Gibraltar to HMS Glory.

    From "Wiki" there appear to be 2 possibilities for HMS Gibraltar around the late 1790's to early 1800's:
    "The third Gibraltar was an American 14 gun brig. captured in 1779, then in turn captured by the Spanish in 1781 and renamed Salvador, then recaptured by HMS Anson in 1800.
    or
    "the fourth Gibraltar was the 80 gun Spanish Fenix captured at the battle of Cape St. Vincent in 1780, used as a Powder hulk in 1813 and broken up in 1836".

    Given what I have learned about HMS Glory that was in service in 1804 [including her armament], I am inclined to go with the fourth-named Gibraltar as an appropriate vessel for serving on.

    If others disagree I am open to other suggestions.

    Then from HMS Glory was he assigned to HMS Ajax in 1804-05, served with Horatio Nelson at Trafalgar until lost in a fire in 1807? The citations for medals noted in post #1 support such action.
     
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  10. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    I'll admit I did look at some of the images but my eye got watery and I had to give up the ghost.

    I know he with HMS Ajax when she burned up so between 14 February 1807 [or thereabouts] when he was rescued and his retirement from the Navy - what age would that be [60?] circa 1828 he must have served elsewhere. Most
    likely it would appear that he retired in 1828 and in order to ensure that he would have somewhere to go if Ann should predecease him he made application to be considered an In-Patient at Greenwich Hospital.
    In 1837, I suspect Ann became unable to look after him and so he made a 2nd application which was during the period April 28- May 4. Would ordering a copy of this from TNA help in determining his status as of that time?
     
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  11. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    Now looked for children of John and Ann who were likely born and baptised in Bridport from 1792 onwards - he married 22 May 1792 - and found several lots:
    One lot - 1795 - 1811:
    Samuel - bapt. 16 Sep. 1795
    Joseph - bapt. 5 May 1803
    Thomas - bapt. 5 May 1803
    John - bapt. 25 May 1811

    The main reason I concluded this was the correct bunch of children was that they were all baptised @ Bridport St. Mary and from the burial records I determined that he was 1 of 5 buried from Greenwich Hospital on 30 September 1856 and that his Religious Denomination was Anglican. As a result I discounted Non- Conformists baptisms.

    Am I correct or jumping to unwarranted conclusions?
     
  12. GrannyBarb

    GrannyBarb Custodian of the Family Accounts

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    Hi, Colin. I, too, had to give up going through those images. But then, it was the wee hours here when I found them (Hubby not sleeping well at night, thus neither do I). Thanks for giving me something to do. ;)

    I suspect that John Keech was probably wounded when the Ajax went down, and was thus eligible to assistance from then on. Since he was not an officer, he was not offered a land grant in Canada, but perhaps a small stipend. After about 1815, the Royal Navy went through a bit of downsizing, so it is highly doubtful that he would have been in active service after that time.

    Still rather sleepy. Did John's father also serve in the RN? I saw some records that were too early for this John. Perhaps they belong to his dad.

    Anyway, you could ask TNA for his service record from his hospital documents... or perhaps, if some of our Kew Expedition Group were willing to do a lookup for you next time they go... :reading: :rolleyes:
     
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  13. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    Would be nice if there was an offer - will wait and see!!
     
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  14. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    OK now back to John Keech and Ann Ackerman. There are 22 Ancestry Public Member Trees to choose from - some have no parents for either John or Ann - whilst others seem mostly to indicate the parents of John Keech as John Keech and Elisabeth nee Housel. Ann's parents are John Ackerman and Ann nee Bowring.

    My own research - which differs from the above has;
    John Keech son of John and Mary baptised 28 December 1768 in Bearminster, Dorset. John Keech married Mary Meech in Bearminster on 28 November 1758.
    Ann Ackerman daughter of Hugh and Jane baptised 10 January 1773 in Bridport, Dorset. Hugh Ackerman married Jane Wallis 5 July 1772.

    Note please that the John Ackerman who married Ann Bowring and Hugh Ackerman who married Jane Wallis were brothers and their parents were John Ackerman and Jane Travis who were married in Askerswell, Dorset 3 December 1843.

    There are 'stories' about the possible naming and baptism of John on some trees, whereas others indicate he was baptised as John 7 September 1767 [or 27]in Bridport. There are no sources indicated and I cannot locate a baptism of a John to parents John and Elisabeth, however John and Elisabeth did baptise a son - Thomas - 7 September 1767 at Barrack Street Meeting House [Independent], Bridport. This baptisms seems to have influenced the creation of John from the name Thomas.

    For starters - should I accept these explanations or stick with my own theory?
     
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  15. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    Looking at where Beaminster is located in relation to Bridport, I feel that I can now discount that baptism, so does the baptism of Thomas [for John] now make sense?

    So does this now make sense - given that a John and Ann baptised 4 children between 1795 and 1811 at Bridport St. Mary and possibly 7 children at Barrack Street Meeting House between 1793 and 1819?
     
  16. GrannyBarb

    GrannyBarb Custodian of the Family Accounts

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    Okay, I'm still a little "out of it" mentally today. Do you have any "for sure" descendants for John (of the Ajax) and Ann Keech? Have you found a probate record for either of them yet? Sorry, short of time today.

    Barb
     
  17. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    Maybe I should dust off my 'dunce' cap and wear it and go sit in the corner. I have just discovered that in addition to the Ann that was baptised by Hugh and Jane 10 January 1773, that his brother John along with Ann nee Bowring baptised a daughter Ann 21 April 1772.

    Gee willickers what's next?
     
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  18. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    I think so -
    Samuel - bapt. 16 September 1795
    Joseph - bapt. 5 May 1803
    Thomas - bapt. 5 May 1803
    John - bapt. 25 May 1811.

    The following were all Non-Conformist baptisms:
    Ann - 12 January 1793
    Sarah - 20 December 1797
    Elizabeth - 22 April 1805
    Sarah - 22 April 1805
    Benjamin - 27 October 1813
    Gaius - 29 November 1815
    Ephraim - 17 March 1819.

    Not yet found any probates and if the story about the death of Ann is factual she was a Pauper when she died 28 August 1838, there are unlikely to be any, either.
     
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  19. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    It is really starting to look like John/Thomas Keech is just one person only and that he was baptised as Thomas but took the name John.

    As for which Ann he married your guess is a good as mine and 22 others have made the assumption. I don't believe there is any way to prove it one way or another.
     
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  20. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    It would appear that John and Ann had quite a large family - given that I have found baptisms for children of a John and Ann in Bridport between 1793 and 1819 that amounted to 11 - 4 were "conventional' and 7 Non-Conformist.

    Is it reasonable to use different services for baptisms?

    The reason that John was admitted to Greenwich Hospital was that he had been blind for several years and Ann was unable to cope with this and couldn't cope with the separation [financially she was dependent on his pension income since his discharge from the Navy in 1815] and this pension became lost when he was admitted.

    I would really like to lay my hands on his Naval History and Admission Records.
     
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