John Taylor

Discussion in 'Ayrshire' started by llangabvrem, May 15, 2018.

  1. llangabvrem

    llangabvrem Member

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    I would like/need the help, of new set of professional eyes, because my amateurish sleuthing has come to a full stop.
    I have been trying to find a birth entry for John Taylor, My maternal Great G/father.
    (could be under Hoge, Hodge or Cowan),

    (John TAYLOR died at Moodlu via Caboolture Queensland Austraila.)
    On his death certificate, died 22 January 1926, parents, John Taylor/ Matilda Elder,

    Informant was Mary McNeil Taylor, nee, McDonald, his Daughter in Law.

    His wife, Mary Stewart passed on the 2nd of May 1919
    and their son, John jnr, on the 30 Aug.1922.

    Working back from his death certificate,
    John was born on or about the 10 September 1842.

    Scottish census,

    1841 census, Matty Hoge lived with John and Rebecca Tailor (Taylor?),
    1851 census Martha Cowan, sons John 8 and James Cowan (2 Months) are listed as visitors with John and Rebecca Taylor and family

    ( All residents residing at that address were born in Ireland, except John Cowan (Ayr) and James Cowan (Dailly)

    1861 census, I am unable to find John.
    1871 census, Occupation Railway fireman,
    1881 census, Occupation Railway Engine driver.

    Martha Hodge married a James Cowan in 20 October 1850.

    John married Mary Stewart on the 13th June 1864,
    he has entered His parents as John Taylor and Martha Hodge,

    (Martha Cowan Death entry 25 December 1886,
    ( Parents James Hodge and Rebecca Elder)

    (I have many mindsets, did Mary (John jnr's wife) confuse two generations Eg. Martha (Matty HOGE 1841 census) HODGE
    and her mother, Rebecca ELDER as Matty (Matilda),
    was he born out of wedlock or born in Ireland, not Ayr as recorded in the 1851 census. )??

    I tried Scotlandspeople without having any success.

    any help in this regard would be much appreciated.

    Thanks in advance,
    Merv.
     
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  2. Londoner

    Londoner Will always roll up her sleeves and dig around

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    So it would make sense if there was a marriage between Martha Elder and a Hodge.
     
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  3. llangabvrem

    llangabvrem Member

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    Thanks for your input, I can see your logic, but, on Martha Cowan's death entry her parents are listed as James Hodge and Rebecca Elder, not that you can take all death entries as gospel. ( I just had another mindset that raises more questions than answers, was Rebecca Hodge widowed and reverted to her maiden name of Elder, as was common in that period
    and did she raise John after the 1851 census because John was not compatible with Martha's new husband James Cowan and could that be the reason I could not find him in 1861 census.)
     
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  4. Grizel

    Grizel Well-Known Member

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    Hello llangabvrem

    Here are my thoughts.
    I think Martha Hodge and Rebecca Taylor were sisters. ( SP have John Taylor and Rebecca Hodge as parents on children's baptisms. ) Martha and Rebecca's parents were possibly James Hodge and Rebecca Elder as on Martha Cowan nee Hodge's death cert.

    I think it is likely that John was born illegitimately to Martha around 1842. I cannot find a baptism record, but that is not surprising. John may then have been brought up in the Taylor household and known as John Taylor - and probably looked at John Taylor senior as a father.
    Although Martha went on to marry James in Cowan in 1850 John does not seem to have taken the Cowan name (apart from the 1851 census) as you are aware. There may have been ill feeling between John and his step father or it may simply have been that John had always been known as John Taylor in the locality and this continued.
    On his wedding certificate he may have put John Taylor as father because he looked on him as a father, or he may have put the name to avoid appearing as illegitimate.

    John's daughter in law may have got mixed up with names as you suggest.
     
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  5. llangabvrem

    llangabvrem Member

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    Hi Grizel,
    I was of the same mind, that they were sisters, until I found Rebecca's death entry on SP, she died on the 1st July 1903, Rebecca Taylor widow of John Taylor, parents William Hodge and Mary Watson, it would appear that Rebecca and Martha are cousins.
    The 1861 census is where I lost him, John Taylor being such a common name, it was hard to say that this is my John with any conviction.
    This is where the different mindset come into play, did he live with his Grandma Elder in those lost years, did they live in Scotland or Ireland,
    so many possibilities.

    Merv.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
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  6. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    I wonder if this is John Taylor in 1861(no census ref.'s available for Scotland)
    Crawfordston, Kirkmichael, Ayr,

    John Taylor servant unmarried b1842 (age 18) born Ayr - ploughman
    (James Cowan is a ploughman on the 1861 census)

    He is working for Isabella Patterson b1829 Coylton Ayrshire - farmer's wife
     
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  7. llangabvrem

    llangabvrem Member

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    Thanks MollyMay,
    Merv.
     
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  8. Grizel

    Grizel Well-Known Member

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    Hi Merv
    That is interesting that Rebecca and Martha are not sisters. I wonder if Jane/Janet is a sister of Rebecca or of Martha , (not that it would help you much to know).

    I haven't been able to find James Hodge and Rebecca Elder or William Hodge and Mary Watson on any Irish sites so far. As the Taylor children were baptised in the Church of Scotland you are probably looking for presbyterian/ church of Ireland records rather than Roman Catholic and most likely from the Northern Ireland counties.

    As to a father of your John Taylor, if he was illegitimate you may never know.

    I don't have access to pay sites to look for an 1861 census record but the record mollymay found could well be possible.
     
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  9. llangabvrem

    llangabvrem Member

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    Thanks Grizel,
    Like you, I do not have access to paid sites,(I cannot justify the cost.)

    And,yes, I agree that MollyMay is correct, re:- 61 census.

    I also agree that he may be illegitimate.

    With Martha Cowan and Rebecca Taylor, I found their relationship on
    Scotlands people, there was a lot of hit and miss to find the right record.

    It has been a few years since I have had access to Ancestry, but I seem to recall another sister in law residing with the Taylor's and her child or two as well.Not sure of her name, it could have been Jane/Janet.
    Merv.
     
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  10. Grizel

    Grizel Well-Known Member

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    Hi Merv

    For the 1841 and 1851 censuses Scotland is very well covered by www.
    freecen.org which is totally free. Jane/Janet is with the Taylor/Tailor family.
     
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  11. llangabvrem

    llangabvrem Member

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    Thanks Grizel.
     

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