Justice ???

Discussion in 'Criminal Ancestors' started by Half Hour, Jul 27, 2013.

  1. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

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    What year would that have been, Findem?
     
  2. Malcolm Webb

    Malcolm Webb Well-Known Member

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    Similar story in my wife's history. Richard Thomas Parker was the last man to be hanged in Nottingham in 1864 for the murder of his mother and attempted murder of his father. 10,000 people turned out to watch him hang and the public outcry put an end to public hanging in Nottingham.

    All the best,
    Malcolm Webb
    Lincoln UK
     
  3. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    In my tree, I have more than a few Black Sheep. Like so many of us today, most of my ancestors and their families later, were poor - Ag. Labourers, Miners and Mariners/Fishermen.

    2 such men - brothers aged 18 & 20 - are my 1st cousins 5X removed. In 1818, these 2 boys, cut a tree down to block a road, primarily as a prank. A hour or 2 passed and a coach came by and stopped. Upon coming out of the woods, they admitted to the coachman that they had done it. They were arrested later that same day at their hovel and charged with Highway Robbery.
    At their trial a few days later, the judge, [who happened to be the owner of the coach], and despite the fact that nothing was stolen he convicted both and the sentence was death. Later in the year, that sentence was commuted to Transportation - the eldest for 14 years and the youngest for 7. Their mother - a widow with 6 other children all aged under 12 - died and was buried 2 days after the youngest was transported.

    I am still researching what became of the 6 other children. As for the 2 that went to Australia, they had 'colourful' lives there and never obtained permission to return to England.

    Colin
     
  4. spison

    spison Well-Known Member

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    I've been looking at the children of women who were charged with operating houses of ill-fame during the 1860s and 1870s in NSW. The children were always taken and placed in an Industrial School but the penalty for the crime of operating the house ran the gamut from a fine of 1 pound to twelve months in prison. I only started to become aware of this variation last night so I am as yet not in a position to suggest why there was such a variation but I'm pretty sure that one reason may have been whether they actually owned (as opposed to rented) the premises.

    Let the punishment fit the crime. - Didn't Gilbert & Sullivan make social criticism in their operettas about this inconsistency?

    Jane
     
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  5. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One

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    I was hoping that question wouldn't be asked Bay Horse :). Off the top of my head I'm not sure of the year but I will have a rummage around for it, I can recall he was either one of the Coggeshall Potter family or related to them.

    Regards.
     
  6. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One

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    Hi Bay Horse,

    Haven't yet found the reference for the last man hanged in Essex but it's just occurred to me that it could be in an email on my old computer. Fortunately I haven't thrown the old comp away yet so when time permits I'll get it up and running, failing the reference being on that comp I still have a load of hard copy stuff to check out.

    The sad part is that the lovely lady who gave me that piece of info died a couple of years ago from a second bout of cancer, so I can't take a short cut to get the info,

    Regards.
     
  7. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One

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    By the way I do have one other piece of colour in my tree, not an ancestor but a great uncle (my paternal grandmother's brother) married a Romany lady. I first discovered her when I found the great uncle's grave which also contained his wife Councellatta, with me were my wife and mother, when I exclaimed " Oh look Arthur married a Spanish lady" my mother told me she was a Romany, apparently my mother had met her years before.

    The only other person of some interest was my paternal great grandfather who, as an aunt related to me, with a smile, "if the gatepost wore a bonnet, he'd fancy it", apparently that gem of information was given to the aunt by my grandmother.

    I was quite surprised to get that info because the aunt (by marriage) was a very churchy person and had always seemed to me a very prim and proper lady. :)
     
  8. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    The last man who was publicly hanged in Essex was: Ferdinand Kohl at Chelmsford 26/01/1865. Is he your ancestor Findem, or was your ancestor the last man executed in private?
     
  9. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One

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    The surname of my ancestor was Potter, I'm not sure whether the info I had mentioned whether it was a private or public hanging. No one named Kohl, currently the only foreigners in my tree are Dalton, Beale and Cork from Norfolk, Sturdy from Yorkshire. :D

    I really will have to find that darn info :(
     
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  10. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    May be this is him?

    http://www.britishexecutions.co.uk/execution-content.php?key=3625#browse
     
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  11. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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  12. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One

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    Many thanks Mealymoo, that's him, William Potter, I hasten to say he's not ancestor but a sibling of one. :D

    I do have a William Potter as an ancestor.

    One thing I will say about him though is he made a pretty good job of being a villain, I've always said if you're going to do something, right or wrong, do it to the best of your ability. :D
     
  13. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

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    :D I think my hubby's ancestors had the same principle.

    I always knew I was marrying into a dodgy bunch...
     
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  14. Malcolm Webb

    Malcolm Webb Well-Known Member

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    Pity I can't say that about my wife's ancestor who was sentenced to 7 years transportation for Grand Larceny (although he was pardoned after 4 years for good behaviour without being transported). Thomas Tutbury broke into a druggist shop in Nottingham in 1824 and stole some money. He went to Derby the next day to spend his ill-gotten gains. He changed one £10 note in a pawnbrokers to buy himself a silver watch then went next door to a tailors to buy himself some new trousers with another £10 note. The tailor had to send his assistant next door to the pawnbrokers for some change. The assistant came back with the local constable and Thomas ended up in court. He was only a "labouring type" so being in possession of one £10 note in 1824, let alone two, would have raised many eyebrows I am sure.

    All the best,
    Malcolm Webb
    Lincoln UK
     
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  15. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One

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    On the subject of dodgy relatives I had an uncle, not blood related, who bought and sold second hand bicycles,

    I remember one Sunday evening waiting at the door of the Rose and Crown for my dad to bring me a packet of Smith's Crisps when the uncle, nicknamed Sticky, rushed into the pub all hot and bothered without saying hello to me, strange I thought.

    I found out later he'd sold a dodgy bike to a black American servicemen who with a friend was chasing him, allegedly with knife involved, so Sticky had managed to outdistance them temporarily and sought sanctuary in the pub whose landlord hid him.

    It was during war time and there were large numbers of American servicemen stationed not far from Chelmsford Essex.

    I suppose in Ye Olden Days had the law caught up with him (which it never did) he would have been hanged or transported. Thereafter the tale came out every Xmas time at my grandmothers place, Sticky for all his faults had a great sense of humour and took it all in good part.
     
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  16. spison

    spison Well-Known Member

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    ... As in "Sticky fingers"?
    :D
    Jane
     
  17. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One

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    Sticky as in Sticky fingers I suspect, I never heard any explanation and I must have interpreted it as something not to inquire about. I did hear a lot of gossip because if a child is playing quietly most adults tend to forget they are there but nothing about the origins of Sticky.

    Another thing that thinking about Sticky brings to mind was that at Xmas one thing I could count on every year without fail, was that aunty Rose would slap a jam tart on uncle (Sticky) Fred's nose. Aunty Rose by the way was not his wife, she was a sister in law, it was my impression that although the tart business was on the surface a practical joke, aunty Rose did not like Sticky. Ah those family undercurrents, fascinating to observe. :cool: ;)
     
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