Known Facts & Family Stories.

Discussion in 'Illegitimacy' started by Nightryder, May 7, 2015.

  1. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    I get to FMP (I have UK sub) and a page comes up with 'Sorry an error has occurred whist processing your request' with a promise that they are investigating.
     
  2. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Gotta love promises. ;)
    I'm searching back in my 'History' for the actual input which gave me access. So far I've arrived at 1881 1891 for that address but not 1911

    ps.
    I can still access that page when I copy /paste the line between 'HTTP//
    &
    48 Navigation Street RG14PN19178

    Perhaps I have a 'gifted' computer?
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2015
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  3. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    '

    This came up for me when I inadvertantly included the '48 navigation street etc.
     
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  4. Nightryder

    Nightryder Well-Known Member

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    Ive finaly got Navigation street all 3,132 results but nothing for 1911 until I search for Issac Liquorish.:(
     
  5. Blackmogs

    Blackmogs Moderator. General Dogs(cats)body. Staff Member

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    Just chipping in here. If it was me I would track all of the Kirkbrides back and forth, all of the children and any aunts and uncles. The chap who wrote the Nuts and Bolts book recommends this in order to sort them all out from each other.
     
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  6. Nightryder

    Nightryder Well-Known Member

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    Blackmogs, I have started to sort out the Kirkbride children & ive sent for the marriage cert for Robert & Eliza so i have the correct parents. I just wondered about who might be living in Navigation Street in 1911, the witnesses on the marriage cert were 2 men William Leonard Toms & George William Toms, I think ive found George William in 1911 age 10 living in Brandon Street but havent found William Leonard yet, just thought a search of Navigation Street might have brought up something interesting
     
  7. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    So far only found a William Leonard Toms b. 1896 Notts.Basford.

    Name: William Leonard Toms
    Birth: Oct 1896 - Basford, Nottinghamshire
    ,,,,,,,,,,,
    Name: William L Toms
    Age in 1911: 14
    Estimated Birth Year: abt 1897
    Relation to Head: Grandson
    Gender: Male
    Birth Place: Barston, Nottinghamshire, England
    Civil Parish: Kegworth
    County/Island: Derbyshire
    Country: England
    Street address: Boro Well Kegworth
    Registration district: Shardlow
    Registration District Number: 434
    Sub-registration district: Castle Donington
    William Toms 68
    William L Toms 14
    RG14; Piece: 20802
    ......
    Event Type: Military Service
    Event Year: 1915
    Residence Place: Cotmanhay, Derbyshire, England
    Age: 19
    Military Company/Regiment: Royal Defence Corps
    Military Regiment: 41299
    Military Battalion: 5th, No 324th Protection Company
    Birth Year (Estimated): 1895
    Birthplace: , Nottinghamshire, England
    Affiliate Publication Number: WO 363 , GS Film Number: 007310643 , Digital Folder Number: 007310643 , Image Number: 00770
     
  8. Caz

    Caz New Member

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  9. Caz

    Caz New Member

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    Hi,

    I am a great grandchild of Eliza Pegg and Robert James Kirkbride. The family facts seem to tie up with the information I know about them.

    I have just spoken to my mum but she doesn't remember the name Victor being mentioned by anyone in the family, but that wouldn't be a surprise.

    You mention that Victor and his wife both visited Eliza Pegg. Do you know where Eliza Pegg was living at the time?

    Caz
     
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  10. Nightryder

    Nightryder Well-Known Member

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    Hi Caz, Wow I was so hoping I could connect with a Kirkbride descendant, which one of the children do you descend from. I dont know where they went to visit Eliza, in 1911 she is in Jarvis Brook & although Robert is not on the census in the same house he does fill out the form for her. Victor & Hilda married in 1918 but whether they went to visit before they married or after, i dont know.If you look in media you will find in my family album a photo of Victor as a young man, do you by any chance have a photo of Robert or Eliza.
    Jenn
     
  11. Caz

    Caz New Member

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    Hi Jenn,

    Sorry about not replying sooner, but I have been asking mum loads of questions about Eliza and Robert. There are several photos of Robert Kirkbride and a couple of Eliza Pegg. I will upload them to my album and also try to estimate when they were taken.

    The most surprising thing is that your mother looks so similar to my mum. I have just scanned a photo of my mum taken in her 20s which I will also upload.
    Mum always says that she looks like the Kirkbrides but I don't think her cousins have her face shape.

    I am descended from Robert George who died in the bombing in the Second World War.

    Although mum was surprised when I first told her about Victor Kirkbride Pegg, she then said that she never understood why her grandfather left Fleetwood to settle in Jarvis Brook. She knew he built the house that they lived in Windsor Terrace, Jarvis Brook but she couldn't understand why he had moved there. Normally Robert James went wherever he could find work and left the family at home. Also Eliza didn't like Jarvis Brook so it is even stranger!

    I have also spoken to one of mum's cousins but she has never heard the name Victor mentioned.

    Mum and one of her cousins have been researching the Kirkbrides and to a lessor extent the Pegg family tree. I have been looking through mum's research especially for the Peggs. My impression is that Eliza was still in contact with her family as she wasn't cut out of her father's (George Ison Peggs) will and Eliza and Robert J were witnesses on one of Eliza's sisters will.

    Is Victor the elderly man in the large group photo as this man reminds me of one of mum's cousins?

    The photos will follow with more info.

    Caz.
     
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  12. Nightryder

    Nightryder Well-Known Member

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    Hi Caz, Yes thats Victor in the family photo taken about 1959 im the girl in the photo, not sure how old i am when it was taken.
    Ive added a couple more photos to media, i dont have a lot of photos of Victor, he was mostly behind the camera, rather than in front of it.
    The wedding photo also shows Hilda Victoria Pegg, to the left of Victor, his eldest daughter.
    It might seem an odd question now a days but do you know if Eliza could drive a car, Victor did say his mother came to visit him one day at school (no mention of Robert ) & it caused a sensation because she arrived in a car, in the days when very few people would have owned one, but unless she drove herself, someone else must have known about Victor.
    Jenn
     
  13. Natalie Sabin

    Natalie Sabin New Member

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    Hey everyone,

    Just hopping on the post as I was looking into Victor. I am a descendant of the Sabin family that adopted Victor (from Samuel Sabin's brother.) My question is coming from the Sabin angle!

    Now he was originally adopted by Mary Ann Sabin in 1901, but then he was adopted by Henry Greenwood and his wife by the time the 1911 census was taken. After spending a lot of time looking through the census' I found that the Sabin's and Henry Greenwood were neighbors in 1881 (Henry aged 15) living on Granville Terrace on Palmerston Street.

    I can very much confirm that Samuel Sabin was indeed a horror - which leads me to a few questions. Samuel was in and out of the workhouse with some of his children on a regular basis. Why on earth would they adopt a child and how did they come across Eliza and Victor? I read about the possibility of them being paid off, but then why would he pass to the Greenwoods? The only connection I can see is the neighbors so its possible that the two families were friends. I would love to know if anyone knows why they took Victor in?

    Does anyone know how the Sabins and Greenwoods were thought of by Victor?

    Thanks

    Natalie
     
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  14. AnnaJenny

    AnnaJenny Well-Known Member

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    I have a few of those!
     
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  15. Londoner

    Londoner Will always roll up her sleeves and dig around

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    Oh yes, one I love is the daughter of a fishmonger whose marriage cert claimed his occupation was " gentleman".
     
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  16. Nightryder

    Nightryder Well-Known Member

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    Hi Natalie, How Victor came to be with the Sabin family is a mystery, unless there was a connection between the Sabin's & either Robert or Eliza, why they would take in another child makes no sense to me in those hard times unless there was money involved, Mary Sabin was 52 the year Victor was born, did she raise him from a baby, ive no idea it would have been a lot to take on. I always knew Victor was adopted but didn't know he was adopted twice until the 1911 census was released & by then there was no one left to ask.
    I thought that Mary might have died & that's how he became a part of the Greenwood family. If you look in my media album there are photos of Victor, Ive also sent you a private message.
    Jenn
     
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