Lady's name Alice / Elles

Discussion in 'Church Records' started by Ma-dotcom, Jul 13, 2022.

  1. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Today while looking for records relating to my 5th Gt.Gt. Uncle Thomas Liddard b. 1716, 'shipwright', I found his marriage again. Having previously recorded his wife as Mary I corrected that to ALICE.
    Looking for children I found four born in Deptford & the last one in Shoreditch. All born to Thomas, a shiptwright & ELLES his wife.
    Would it be reasonable to believe that Elles how the pronunciation of Alice was heard & recorded? This would make things so much easier in tracing them all in later years apart from first & third babes who died as infants.
    I have not found a marriage for a Thomas Liddard to an Elles anyone, nor have I looked due to time spent elsewhere to rest my wrist & fingers.

    Any opinions please?
     
  2. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Just had a quick look for a marriage to an Elles, not found any. Off to k.p. & meds duty now for a while.
     
  3. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    As you don't say when they started having children I have taken a guess on the marriage.

    Marriage date 21 Jul 1739, London
    Thomas Liddard
    Alice Whitehead

    Familysearch have the place as - Precinct of St Katherine, Middlesex, and also Saint Katherine by The Tower, London
     
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  4. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Yes. :) I have a couple of instances in my own tree. ;)
     
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  5. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Sorry for that lapse Chimp. Yes you have correct marriage & area.
    In marriage allegations for Alice both are given 23 as ages & St. Paul's Deptford as their Parish. Not sure how much I can copoy & post here but I'll have ago. Both pretty much the same, apart from names being in different places.
    Name: Alice Whitehead
    Age: 23
    Birth Year: abt 1716
    Event Date: 21 Jul 1739
    Parish: St Pauls Deptford
    County: Kent
    Spouse's Name: Thomas Liddard.
    Spouse's Age: 23
    Spouse's Parish: Deptford, St Paul
    Spouse's County: Kent
    Event Type: Allegation
    Reference Number: MS 9772/18
    ...
    Had to leave laptop in kitchen as it kept throwing me off the page, so I had to use compute & start again :( :oops:

    Yippee, thanks Jan. I will now go ahead & place children in the family.
    8(:-)
     
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  6. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Thank you both.:)
     
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  7. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    I've just found the death of one Elles Liddard- Widow of Kings yard Row- Deptford. 1777. boy this name doth cling.
    After a hint from a worthy member, I must wonder where did the first settlers in New Zealand come from via UK?
    Thomas died in 1767 Deptford.

    Not having much luck finding their offspring. No I haven't looked in N.Z. ;)
    Cot time cometh, good night all.
     
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  8. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    :D:D
     
  9. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Worthy? :D
    England I believe but lots from Scotland. Dont know much NZ history.
     
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  10. Sandiep

    Sandiep Successfully Supports Searches!

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    Elles & Thomas
    had Mary bap 26 July 1742
    Thomas bap 30 August 1747
    Elles bap 10 September 1749 died 1753
    John Bap 27 June 1752 died 1752

    All at St Pauls Deptford
    Images are on Ancestry
     
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  11. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    From transcripts on FMP

    Mary died 2nd August 1742

    John and Elles both died 14th February 1753

    There is a baptism for a John on 13th July 1755 in Shoreditch with parents Thomas & Elles. Also baptised on the same date is a son George.
     
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  12. Sandiep

    Sandiep Successfully Supports Searches!

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    can see one for George 1755 but cant find the john 1755:(
     
  13. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    :( Yes worthy.:)
    I only do because I've always had a very warm spot for N.Z.- no wonder as I have so many families over there, seems every time I look around, another lot has gone over there.
     
  14. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    John Liddard
    Baptism Date: 27 Jun 1752
    Baptism Place: Saint Paul,Deptford,Kent,England
    Death Date: 14 Feb 1753
    Father: -Thos. Liddard
    Mother: -Elles
    FHL Film Number: 384869
    # 1
    .............@Chimp @Sandiep
    Thank you both, I did have those Baptisms, I meant in follow up years. Am pondering over a George [shipwright] with 5 children born Deptford, wife MAry. Problem is the marriage I found for a George with a Maria Riches gives him two 2nd Christian names. I'll ponder further on that.
     
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  15. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Apprentice

    Indenture or registration year - 1768 (if the same George would make his 13 years old)

    Apprentice - George Liddard
    Premium £21 .0s 0d
    Master - Walter Beech
    Master's occupation - Shipwright
    Master's place - St Paul Deptford, Kent

    There is this marriage

    Marriage date - 14 Jul 1776, Camberwell St Giles
    George Liddard
    Mary Christian

    Deaths

    Burial date - 17 Nov 1805, St Paul, Deptford
    George Liddard
    Denomination - Anglican

    Now for Thomas

    According to your post #5 Thomas was born 1716

    Baptism date - 27 Jan 1716, Southwark Christ Church, Surrey
    Thomas Liddard
    Relationship - Son
    Birth date - 10 Jan ?
    Father - Thomas Liddard
    Parent's occupation - Smith
    Mother - Mary

    Apprentice

    Indenture or registration year - 1732
    Apprentice name - Thomas Liddard
    Apprentice's place - Christ Church, Surrey
    Premium £5 .5s 0d
    Master name - Alexander
    Master's occupation - Ship carpenter
    Master's place - Rotherhithe, Surrey
     
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  16. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    @Chimp , well, thank you so much for the 'Indenture or registration year-1768. I haven't been able to find that. {-(^^)-}Almost brought tears. ;)
    I have all of the others including Mary Christian as wife, hoping that is correct. Not found another.
    All others I have, including ,I hope a Will for William Liddard son of William which mentions his wife Susanna Matilda & 5 children, 2 were born in U.S.A.

    Thank you so much for that, I have alarms going off for meds & his cot check so must move, again Thank you very much ;)
     
  17. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Marriage - 17 Nov 1798, St John Horsleydown, Southwark
    William Liddard
    Susanna Matilda Edwards of St Olave, Southwark , Surrey
    By licence or banns - By Licence

    The above marriage is a transcript, giving the month of November, but.....

    Oxford Journal - 20 October 1798 - Page 4
    upload_2022-7-14_19-53-29.png

    It looks like the marriage took place in October not November.

    Susannah - bap. 06 Aug 1800 - St John Horsleydown, - b. 10 July 1800 - Father Occupation - Lighterman
    Ann - bap. 08 Sep 1802 - St John Horsleydown, - b. 18 Aug 1802- Father Occupation - Lighterman
    Lucretia - bap. 26 Jan 1806 - St Alfege Greenwich - b. 27 Sep 1804
    Virginia - bap. 10 Jul 1811 - Bermondsey - Residence - Horsleydown
    William - bap. Apr 1813 - Bermondsey - b. 1812- Residence - Horsleydown

    United States, Transatlantic Migration

    Liddard, William, b., as all the family, in London, age 45, migr. from Liverpool, merchant, intending to settle in Illinois Territory; wife Susanah Matilda, age 40; dau. Susanah, age 17; dau. Ann, age 15, dau. Lucretia, age 12; dau. Virginia, age 8; son William, age 5 - 26 May 1818

    Oxford University and City Herald - 23 September 1826 - Page 4
    upload_2022-7-14_19-55-32.png

    The above marriage took place on 13th September.

    Virginia married John Francis Weymouth in 1842 in Cheltenham, Gloucestershire

    Their grave can be seen here:-
    Code:
    https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/191455981/virginia-weymouth
    Baptism date - 16 Sep 1778, Southwark, Surrey
    Susanna Matilda Edwards
    Father - Richard Edwards
    Mother - Ann

    Death
    LIDDARD, SUSANNAH MATILDA
    Age - 62
    GRO Reference: 1841 M Quarter in ST GILES IN THE FIELDS & ST GEORGE BLOOMSBURY Volume 01 Page 64
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2022
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  18. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    (+)(^^)(+)8(:-)
    Good morning & many thankyous @Chimp.
    I had the marriage lines for William & Susannah which show 17 Nov.. 1798 at St. John Horsleydown, with consent of her Father. Perhaps the paper went with the application for licence & printed as job done.
    William's migration to USA I hadn't found so again, thank you{-(^^)-}
    This is all rather immense, as all I started with was the Alice / Elles query.

    I did see the grave of Virginia & Hubby, taken by or for a Weymouth family member I guess as even on FAG for Virginia it doesn't show the top part of stone.

    Thank you also for info on other children, I had not copied down marriage for Lucretia to William Martin. Too many 'on the run' happenings yesterday.
    I have now copied all of the above so I don't miss any pieces.

    You have brightened up a rather daggy morning, Chimp, & now the sun is up too so things must improve. :)
     
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  19. Murfomurf

    Murfomurf Well-Known Member

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    And me too. Elles Elless Elliss Elis Ales Alis etc. They had me stumped for a few years in several cases.
     
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  20. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Welcome to the club Lass. ;)
     
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