Landowners of Blackbraes Muiravonside 1911

Discussion in 'Stirlingshire' started by Philippa, Mar 19, 2016.

  1. GrannyBarb

    GrannyBarb Custodian of the Family Accounts

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    Hi, Phillipa. I have a 3-month sub to Scotland Places, which is mostly ancient info (pre-20th Century). I can do a lookup later, but lack the time right now.
     
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  2. GrannyBarb

    GrannyBarb Custodian of the Family Accounts

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    I haven't found much more than has been already reported. The Ordinance Surveys are from late 1850's. Mr. Russell owned the Blackbraes settlement and a few of the surrounding farmsteads. The school was also the post office. There is a mansion and estate called Craigend that might be worth a look. Between the coal works, iron works and railroads most of the surrounding countryside was in the hands of industrial-types from Falkirk and beyond.

    FWIW, I think you can view the survey maps without a sub.
     
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  3. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    A couple of interesting snippets -
    Falkirk Herald 11th May 1901
    Mr John Eccles, Maddiston, has furnished us with the census returns for the parish of Muiravonside, from which it appears that the census is now 5332, compared with 3671 in 1891, or an increase of 1661. The increase is largely accounted for by the opening up of the village of Standburn, the population of which is returned at 945.

    Falkirk Herald 31st March 1951
    The latest quota of new houses at the Torravon scheme has now been completed and the houses are now let. The new localities will be known as Eccles Place, Lawson Drive and James Wilson Drive. They are named after three men who had been associated with the public life of the district. Mr John Eccles was Poor Law Officer for many years; Peter Lawson was also Poor Law Officer and is now the district Welfare Service Officer, Registrar, and Clerk the District Council, while Mr Jas Wilson was headmaster of Maddiston School for a long number of years and was for some time a County Councillor
     
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  4. Philippa

    Philippa Always a lady.

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    The things that happen when part of the world is sleeping!! From being shadowy people with only names and a few dates to prove their existence, Bill's family is now gaining reality and substance.

    I'd found the two entries in the Maddiston School logs, Terry (thank you) but the article on Maggie's death is new. Bill had no idea of when she'd died, but thought it must have been after he and his parents arrived in Australia, otherwise he would have remembered something about it. (They landed in Melbourne in about April 1949 just after he turned 9). He does remember Maggie and going from Laurieston to visit her in Maddiston on Sundays with his parents. It was a rather grim time for a young boy as there was no playing, laughing, joking, allowed, all windows were heavily curtained and the house was always really dark. If they sang it had to be hymns and he virtually had to sit, silent, kicking his heels (quietly of course). He did say she always made him some curds when they visited, so while she was a stern woman she wasn't mean (proven by the respect shown in the article).

    It was a bit of a surprise to learn that Bill's aunt Jessie was married. Another bit we never knew and Bill was under the impression she'd remained single. AND that Maggie'd been a widow for so long. I wonder what happened to David - and when. Another trail to follow. If his death had been reported in the Falkirk Herald, would it have mentioned his employers? Hmmm. Just tossing random thoughts into the mix here as they flit across my head.

    Thank you again, I'm almost overwhelmed by the additional information - will have to sit and absorb in the quiet later on.

    Interesting about the "big houses" in the Blackbraes area, GB. I'd almost settled on John Russell as "the one" but I still haven't had that "click" to make me certain. While he was a lawyer in Falkirk I think his main address was something like Ardnot (sp?) but it's all pretty vague, at least in the stuff I've been able to find so I haven't made many notes at the moment.

    Well lovely people you have certainly come up trumps yet again. Thank you so much, each and every one of you.

    XX
     
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  5. GrannyBarb

    GrannyBarb Custodian of the Family Accounts

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    Philippa, if you have the name of a property, I can look in the OS reports and tell you how many stories and what type of roof (thatched or tile) and the state of repair circa 1858. :rolleyes: At that time there were very few private owners in the immediate area - mostly business interests.

    The valuation rolls are on Scotland's People as well as John Eccles will and probate: INSPECTOR OF POOR, ENTERKINE COTTAGE, MADDISTON, POLMONT STATION, D. 19/02/1924 AT MADDISTON, TESTATE. (2 documents, 10 credits each totaling 9 pages).
     
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  6. Philippa

    Philippa Always a lady.

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    Oh Barb, how fascinating!! John Eccles' will and probate - now that IS a find - leave it with me and I'll try to work out costs etc. :)

    I think I'll leave the big house line of investigation for the moment and try a new tack. Inspiration struck while Bill and I were talking over coffee.

    Maybe I've been attacking this from the wrong perspective. I assumed that David had found a better job than the one he had at Parkhall and so they were moving on.

    BUT - What if David had died? If accommodation was part of the "package" at Parkhall it would be forfeited when he died and Maggie and the children would have had to move out and on and removal from the Maddiston School could have been another consequence.

    The date of removal from Maddiston School was 24 June 1910, the "remover" was Mrs Harvey (Maggie). When Andrew died in 1918 he was described as son of "the late" David Harvey - that was what rang a bell this morning. When Maggie died in 1950 she was described as having been a widow for more than 40 years. Brings us back to a possible date of death as 1910, don't you think? The only time Bill's father mentioned HIS father to me he said "My father was a gardener at the Big House in Maddiston", no qualifiers like (before he............), nothing more.

    Off in a few minutes to have a chat with my friend who has an Ancestry sub to check it all out and see if this current idea has any basis in fact.

    FINGERS CROSSED!!!
     
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  7. GrannyBarb

    GrannyBarb Custodian of the Family Accounts

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    Yes! :nailbiting::)
     
  8. Philippa

    Philippa Always a lady.

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    :headbang:

    She's cancelled her sub!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    :sceptical:
     
  9. Sis

    Sis Rootles out resources!

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    I have just searched for a death of David Harvey 1910, no other details and it only gave me one. I had a couple of views left that I wont use so I took a look and it was for a 71 year old in Edinburgh! Oh well worth a try, back to the drawing board.
     
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  10. Philippa

    Philippa Always a lady.

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    Oh Sis, thank you. I might wander over to FamilyHistorySearch and see if they come up with anything. Had lousy luck with them yesterday because of no images, but you never know your luck.

    Let's face it, the Harvey/Eccles line have been hanging about for over one and a half centuries (going back to David's father) waiting for me to wake up and start looking, so a little longer won't make much difference will it? ;)
     
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  11. GrannyBarb

    GrannyBarb Custodian of the Family Accounts

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    Oh nooo!!!!:eek:

    Thanks, Sis, for saving us a credit. I tried tweaking the search by adding more years. Every time I add location as Stirling it returns no results. Reckon he perished away from home?
     
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  12. Sis

    Sis Rootles out resources!

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    I've got one more that's due to expire in 36 days if anything else needs looking for.:)
     
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  13. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Strange, when they reported births in the Falkirk papers they always put the mothers full maiden name. I wish they had done it for some of my lot.

    Falkirk Herald - 26th September 1931
    KELLY - At Stirling, on 21st Sept., 1931, to Mr & Mrs H Kelly (Jessie Reid Harvey), a daughter.
     
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  14. Philippa

    Philippa Always a lady.

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    Registration of deaths was compulsory in Scotland by the 1900s wasn't it? To be honest I can't see David straying too far from the home area - up to about 25km maybe, but not so far that he'd be lost to the records. His parents were married in Cumnock in 1867, from his marriage certificate I've worked out he was born in abt 1880. He was married aged 22 in Maddiston in 1902 and was working at the "big house" there (Parkhall) at that time. The kids were born in 1903, 1905 and 1908 (I just found Jessie leaving Maddiston school in 1913) and went to Maddiston Public School until "removed" - reason "going to Blackbraes".

    That seems (assuming the family had lived together in the same place) to anchor David in the Maddiston/Blackbraes area from 1902 (when he was married) to possibly the time Maggie withdrew the two boys from the Maddiston School.

    When Maggie died in 1950 she was described as a highly respected teacher in Blackbraes School for over 30 years. This explains the move to Blackbraes.

    There seem to me to be too many "local" things recorded to suggest he'd gone further afield, but let's face it, anything's possible.

    I was going to beg favours from people and get an Ancestry lookup but honestly, without pinning him down to a more specific date it would probably turn out to be a complete waste of time and Sis' 71 year old in Edinburgh is a good example.

    Family Search to me is useless these days, don't know what happened. In my early searching days I found some incredibly pointers - transcribed from local records - which helped me a lot. What I've discovered in the last two days tells me precisely "spit"!!

    For the moment (until I find a huge light bulb above my head) I think I'm going to have to let it all ride and try digging around the good old web to see if I can come across any indicators.

    Will let you all know!!

    Thanks again for your help - sorry if I'm dragging you into totally useless areas!!
     
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  15. Philippa

    Philippa Always a lady.

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    Chimp, you posted that while I was busy "authoring". How incredible and what a(nother) magic find. Bill's utterly gob-smacked. As I mentioned before, he thought Jessie had remained single and although he can only remember visiting her house once, had there been a girl in the house 9 years older than himself he would certainly have remembered. He does remember there was another woman in Jessie's house, but she would have been within about 5 years of Jessie's age at the time so definitely not a daughter and also not her mother, Maggie. The thlot plickens - by the minute!!

    Why the heck do families have to be so dadblamed secretive - or uncommunicative? Honestly, when you find you know more about your husband's family than he does it's a really sad situation. More so when things are so relatively recent.

    OK, have the bit between my teeth now. Have no idea what I'm going to do with it (it feels quite uncomfortable I can tell you) but this is NOT going to beat me. Well................

    :cool:
     
  16. Sis

    Sis Rootles out resources!

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    Searched Scotlands Billion Graves Cemetry Index for David - you guessed it nothing, zilch, nada!!!
     
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  17. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    From Scotlandspeople.

    William Hugh Kelly married Jessie Reid Harvey in the Denny and Dunipace district of Stirling in 1931

    A birth for a Marjory Harvey Kelly was registered in the Denny and Dunipace district of Stirling in 1931

    Don't have enough credits to see the full details of the above.
     
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  18. Philippa

    Philippa Always a lady.

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    Where the dickens is he, Sis. He was obviously around 9 months before Jessie was born in May 1908 so shook off this mortal coil between then and when son Andrew died in 1918. 10 years, give or take the odd smidgen. Maybe they moved to Blackbraes so that Maggie could teach? Maybe it wasn't because he'd died after all? Maybe the little green men are behind it all? I'm starting to become a little irritated about this I can tell you.

    OK, back to the drawing board.

    Chimp, you seem to be unravelling a lot of unexpecteds, so what about David's death? Hmmm? (Sorry, just joking - I think :) )
     
  19. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    There is a death for a Jessie P R Kelly (other name Harvey) aged 62 in 1970 in the Denny and Dunipace district of Stirling.
     
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  20. Philippa

    Philippa Always a lady.

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    Yet another bit of information we didn't have, Chimp. Thank you. Feel free to relax now, you've earned your keep at least for today!! :)
     

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