Lilian Elizabeth Butcher born about 1872

Discussion in 'Norfolk' started by annabel, Apr 22, 2019.

  1. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    I'm looking for Lilian Elizabeth Butcher's birth and parents

    in 1901 (RG13; Piece: 457; Folio: 44; Page: 30) she is living in Battersea, a widow aged 29 born Diss. She is with her children, none of whom had a mother's maiden name listed on the GRO. Rita M aged 8 born East Molesey and Harry G 7 months born Battersea.

    In 1911 she is single aged 38 born Diss living in Hastings (RG14; Piece: 4749; Schedule Number: 153)
    Children Rita 18, George 10 born Clapham and Gladys 8 born Hastings

    I cannot find any likely lady before these censuses, can anyone find her?
     
  2. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    Not that it helps to prior 1901, but an Lilian E Butcher marries James S Miller
    1917 Hastings June qtr 2b 29

    Edit
    I think we can scrub this, as there is a death for this Lilian in 1964 and the yob is 1890, so not her.:(
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
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  3. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    Still had no luck for pre 1901 - I guess you know Rita M married in Hastings and is still there on the 1939 reg - shame her mum is not with her.
     
  4. Londoner

    Londoner Will always roll up her sleeves and dig around

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    There is an Elizabeth Jane Butcher, born Diss 1872, with parents John and Jane. Found in 1881 but I forgot to note the census ref.
     
  5. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    That was the only one I found as well - RG11/1966/73/1

    There a quite a few Lilian/Lily E Butchers about:headbang: - none born Diss though:(
     
  6. Flook

    Flook A True Gentleman

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    Yes, I got caught with this one before I realised that Butcher was her 'married', name (if she ever actually married). There are about 4 or 5 likely Lilian's (and variants) born in Depwade Registration District around the first years of the 1870s. I've checked them all out and only one seems to have married a Butcher (Lily Gray married Edward Butcher in Sheffield 1900).

    I'm wondering if Diss as the place of birth is throwing us off the track. She might have used it as it was the nearest large town or she may even have been physically born there but actually lived elsewhere in one of the villages in Depwade.

    I'm typing this off the top of my head from what I remember of my searches last night. Got to pop out now but I'll have another look when I get back.
     
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  7. Londoner

    Londoner Will always roll up her sleeves and dig around

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    I did find a George Butcher b 1875 Diss, living with an aunt Rachel in 1891, might have been a brother? As she did use the name for her son.
     
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  8. Flook

    Flook A True Gentleman

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    Phew....I'm just coming up for air really. This is a tough one and I have to eat my words and say that Elizabeth Jane is definitely in the running. Just in passing her parents seem to have been John Butcher & Jane Tacon who married in Norwich 20th November 1871 (Norfolk marriages on FMP). I'm still working on this.

    I've looked at several other things and I think I've ruled out any likely births in Suffolk (Diss is just on the border) and I've definitely ruled out Lilian Elizabeth Hansell.

    Still huntin'.....
     
  9. Jellylegs

    Jellylegs Well-Known Member

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    I came across the surname TACON last night when I was searching, but couldn't tie it to Lilian Elizabeth.

    From my notes, in the 1939 census, there is a George E BUTCHER (with a birth date of 29 April 1923) living in Hastings with James S MILLER and Elizabeth L MILLER (birth date given 20 January 1874).

    I was wondering if this couple were the James S MILLER and Lilian E BUTCHER that MollyMay mentioned in #2 which I had also seen, but she beat me to it.

    Anyway, searching for the birth of George E BUTCHER, he appears to be the son of Harris George BUTCHER and Veronica C WILSON who married in West Ham in 1921.

    There is a birth registration of a Harris George BUTCHER Sep quarter 1900 Wandsworth, mother's maiden name TACON.
     
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  10. Jellylegs

    Jellylegs Well-Known Member

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    James Sherman MILLER of 4 Cornwallis Terrace, Hastings died 14 Nov 1950 - probate to his widow Elizabeth Lilian MILLER on 1 February 1951.

    Elizabeth Lilian of the same address died 31 July 1959 at 31 De Cahm Road, St. Leonards-on-Sea - probate to two named solicitors.

    The death registration of Elizabeth Lilian gives an age of 87 and a birth date of about 1872 - two years different from the 1939 census.

    So, is this someone completely different to the Lilian Elizabeth we are looking for or the same person, or maybe a sister to Elizabeth Jane?
     
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  11. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    @Jellylegs I also found most of that last night, except the deaths. I wrote it up then reread MollyMay's post and decided I'd got it wrong so deleted it before posting. But it looks good to me.
     
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  12. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    It looks good to me too - sorry about misleading everyone with the 1964 death:oops:
     
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  13. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    Lilian Elizabeth was at 7 Cornwallis Terrace in 1911 :)
     
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  14. Flook

    Flook A True Gentleman

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    I thought that rang a bell when I saw it - well spotted (and remembered!!):)
     
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  15. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    Harris George Butcher is in Harrow Middlesex in 1939
    There is a death reg for Veronica C Butcher age 28 June qtr 1923
    West Ham 4a 254
    Harris dies in Hastings in 1978 - dob 14/8/1900 (same as in 1939)

    Edit
    Harris marries Freda C Phelps June qtr 1925 Kensington 1a 219
     
  16. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    It is on Anc.;)
    Harris George names his father as Harris George Butcher an Admiralty Contractor:rolleyes:
    upload_2019-4-23_21-24-33.png
     
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  17. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    My goodness, that looks very good. I hadn't even thought of a marriage later on. How amazing you all are. I think that same address makes the link. I'll see if I can find aunt Rachel and Veronica and Elizabeth Lilian births when I get home later to tie it all up
     
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  18. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    I'm now having a look at all this info. On Ancestry it says she's Lilian N Butcher, and looking at the image it's so blurred it could be E or N. Is it definitely E on another site?
     
  19. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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  20. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Just getting off the track a bit but I decided to have a quick look at 8 year old Gladys. Seems she married Albert H Archdeacon in 1919 in Hastings at the tender age of around 16 as Gladys Lillian Butcher, Albert H Archdeacon was born in 1870 and died in Hastings in 1955 age 85. He was 49 when they married and they had two daughters, Eleanor SR 1922 and Jane E 1924. Oh dear a 49 year with a 16 year old wife...:oops:
    What was her mother thinking?
     
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