Thank you Chimp for allowing me to post here. I hope you can decide best where to place this. My mystery relative is my grandfather, Bert Lee. Bert was born around 1880 in either Nottinghamshire, Chester, or Chelsea. On 18th July 1935 he married my grandmother (still living) in Beeston, Notts. He was around 55 then. In 1941 he lived at 127 Regent Street, Beeston, Nottinghamshire. He died about 1965, when I was around 1 yr old, and he was around 85. My mother said one time when everyone was out and she was ironing clothes, Bert was having a drink and told my Mom that he was from a town that was half in England and half in Wales, and that they has some pigs on their land. (Chester or Chelsea she said) Another time, Mom said that at one point when my father was very little, he saw his father’s Bible with a name inside the front cover, but he was too young to read it. After that, the Bible disappeared. Perhaps he changed his name to avoid someone or something? In fact, when it came time to receive his pension, no one could prove his age. I don’t think they could find his birth certificate or anything like even his military papers to prove his age. Eventually, England went by the age he put on his marriage license to issue him his pension. I have hopefully ordered a copy of his marriage license from the right place. Hopefully I’ll receive it in a month. However, I’m thinking perhaps his parent’s names may not be on there. And the last thing I know is that Mom said he was a house painter after the War, in which he got shell shock. So you see, until I can figure out at least where he came from, I’m finding it difficult to decide which war records are his, and which census records are his to follow. I cannot find a grave on FindaGrave even. I have written to family several times, and cannot get any more help than this. I’m praying the marriage license will arrive with a clue. Thank you to anyone who tries to do a little digging for me.
When I first saw this, I thought the message was locating "Brett Lee". My first thought was "you bet ya, I'll be in that". For those who are not cricket lovers, Brett Lee is a rather good looking Australian fast bowler.
I will be happy to have a look around for you. My granddad's first name was Bert, but at the beginning of my search I was looking for Albert [thinking that Bert was a short form of his real name]. I will let you know if I come up with anything of interest. I found a marriage for Bert Lee to Violet Blagden 1935 Basford, Nottinghamshire. Because he was quite mature when your Bert married your grandmother, is it possible that he was either a widower or divorced?
Hi Glenda, & welcome in. Is it known if your G'ather was simply 'Bert' or perhaps originally 'Albert', Herbert, Bertram, Hubert or one of several other 'Berts? Looking at 1891 census in Notts alone there are several Berts one or two Alberts,- one being corrected from Taylor by a viewer. (1)Do you have marriage cert? (2) Does it show his Father? (3) who were witnesses? (4) did he have any known siblings? Sorry about the quiz, but any little bit helps.
I am a cricket lover - but not your lot at the moment Still in footie we got 1 point to your team's 0 . As the saying goes "it is all's well that ends well". Off topic I know - so sorry to the original poster - Glenda - am I forgiven?
I have been trying to concentrate on Chester as it is right on the border with England and Wales but so far the closest that I have found is Albert Edward Lee Christened 18 July 1880 Ashton-Under-Lyne, Staleybridge, Cheshire Father Walter, Mother Helen. So far I haven't been able to find any of them in the census records, but it is still early days. I will keep looking.
Interestingly there is a death registered in Basford Registration District in the October-December Quarter of 1965. It is for Bert Lee, born 1880. Beeston is in Basford RD in Nottingham. I can't do anymore on this today but I'll see if I can check this out a bit more in the next couple of days.
Hopefully you've ordered it from the GRO Government website. There are firms around who will get you exactly the same certificate at a vastly greater cost. The GRO site is here and is the place to go for Birth, Marriage and Death Certificates in England & Wales. https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp
Thank you for all this wonderful help. Yes, he married Violet Blagdurn, nee Rumbelow in Beeston. The online has the names spelled wrong. Online, it says his name was Bet Lee who married Violet Blagden. And yes, I found that death registry and presume that is the correct one for him. My Mom said he was a bachelor when he married Violet. However we do not know if this is true, or if he had any siblings. I can't seem to find this information, as he never talked about his past. I believe I did request the marriage cert from the above link. My email receipt came from col.admin@gro.gsi.gov.uk When and if I receive the marriage cert, I will be sure to share here. Thank you all for helping. Glenda
I have sympathy, one of my lines is Lee and they are hard work. I missed the Chester bit. There are of course areas of Chester that are across the Welsh boundary. Will continue looking.
I've read the thread twice - to try not to make a fool of myself by repeating what someone has already told you, Glenda - but haven't found any reference to the fact that Chelsea is part of London and thus a long way way from Wales. That's why Chester and Chepstow are possibilities. You may not be able to find a grave not only because the memorial has not been transcribed, but also because the British have been cremating people for a long time now. One of my grandfathers died in 1951 and was cremated, although he had to be taken to the next county as there weren't crematoriums all over the place like now. There are lists of people cremated and in which crematorium; you could perhaps email Nottinghamshire Archives, but you would need to know the date of death at least (to narrow down time spent looking). Would your grandmother remember? Their email is archives(at)nottscc.gov.uk A final, minor, point: a marriage certificate is what the church/registry office gives you when you get married, and what you can get a copy of for your ancestors. A marriage licence is a document needed if, for some reason, you can't get married by Banns or there is no time for them to be read (that's just bad planning! ). I needed one because I married a furriner !
Thank you Old Stoneface. I thought Chelsea was a border town. And now that you mentioned it, my mother did say my grandfather was cremated. I'd forgot about that. She said my Dad went the same way as his day, cremated in a hospital gown. I never understood what reading banns was all about. Thank you for telling me the difference between certificates and licenses in England. Over here, you get a permit to get married, and then the certificate/license are basically the same thing. Alas, I've been here a long time (since I was 3), and I too am married to a furriner.
Another possibility worth looking at is that his name might have been spelt Lee, Lea, Leigh, Legh and even Lear! I am a Lea and my ancestry comes from NW Cheshire and I believe Lea is the most likely spelling there (there is a saying that goes....."there are more Leas than fleas in Cheshire"!), but I have found my folk with many of the above spellings. The worst was finding them under the name of Lear, until I discovered that that is the way it was pronounced in Cheshire!
Hi Glenda, I have just had the opposite problem as I have been looking at marriages in the USA for the first time and it took me a while to grasp that there the licence was also the marriage certificate! In the Church of England you are meant to publicly announce your intention to marry by having the clergyman read out in church "the marriage banns" - basically your names and that you plan to get married - on three Sundays before you actually marry. That is to allow time for anyone who knows of a reason why you shouldn't marry to raise the issue either before or at the marriage ceremony. When these rules were first enforced you had to marry in a CofE church unless you were a Jew or a Quaker and a license was required to marry without having the banns read. More recently marriages in other churches or civil marriages were allowed and for these the couple has to give advance notice to the registrar.
Does anyone in your family have your granddads war medals or any old records that your Mother might have held. I found the baptisms of all of my great uncles written on the back of one post card. Old postcards hold a lot of very interesting information. Any old piece of paper or photograph or postcard should be closely looked at for clues.
Looking at the map, there is a lot of what looks like arable farmland between Chester and the Welsh border, mostly bordering the River Dee.
There are so many ways to spell Lee and Bert that I'm praying the marriage certificate will have some clues. I've been all through my mothers old photos and documents, and there is just nothing on my grandad. Mom said he told no one anything about his past. I've had my cousin question my Aunt in England (his daughter) several times and there just doesn't seem to be any leads that I can get my hands on. I guess I'll have to be patient till the document arrives.
I had the same problem with my Dad's side. My father never spoke of the past and I didn't even know the names of his Mum, Dad, brothers and sisters until I started my search. My Dad was a very angry man and I think that stemmed from the fact that his Father was very violent. So, your Granddad might also have had a very unhappy childhood.
