Martha Grove

Discussion in 'Church Records' started by Sis, Jan 29, 2017.

  1. Sis

    Sis Rootles out resources!

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    I need help please. I'm trying to find a baptism for Martha Grove. She married John Jaques in 1810 at St Matthews, Bethnal Green. I came across some wonderful monumental transcriptions at St Mary the Virgin, East Barnet church that gives her death as 1849, aged 66. So by my calculations that makes her born c.1783. It is definitely my Martha as the details of her husband are spot on, the inscription says:

    Martha, only daughter of the undermentioned John & Elizabeth Grove, and widow of John Jaques, formerly of Stamford Hill, Middlesex, who died at Boulogne sur Mer, 6th February 1846, departed this life 19th January 1849, aged 66 years.

    I can't find her baptism anywhere.
     
  2. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Neither can I :(
     
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  3. Sis

    Sis Rootles out resources!

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    Thanks for trying Jan:)
     
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  4. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    I can't find her either - will have another look later on.
     
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  5. Sis

    Sis Rootles out resources!

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    Thanks Ann. I think she's going to be one of those elusive one's:rolleyes:
     
  6. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    Have you found the marriage of John & Elizabeth?
     
  7. Sis

    Sis Rootles out resources!

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    No I haven't MM, but haven't had a real good look. Been searching for Martha mainly.
     
  8. arthurk

    arthurk Well-Known Member

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    Just had a look at John and Martha's marriage (19 July 1810, and the image is at Ancestry, if anyone else wants to look). The witnesses are John Grove and Rachel ? - looks a bit like Ranne with a very faint final 'e'.

    But also interesting is that it was by licence, which might possibly add a bit.
     
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  9. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    I found this one - 17/9/1784 John Grove to Elizabeth Stewart St Bartholomew by Royal Exchange (Boyds).
     
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  10. arthurk

    arthurk Well-Known Member

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    Also (via FamilySearch):
    15 July 1773 John Grove to Elizabeth Greenwood (St James, Westminster)
    1 July 1782 John Groves to Elizabeth Brocas (St James, Westminster)
    4 Feb 1772 John Groves to Elizabeth Rowley (Standon, Hertford)

    and others further afield. (Note Grove/Groves variants)
     
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  11. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    This may or may not be of use, but I’ll post it in case. In the London marriages on Ancestry I found the marriage at St Matthew, Bethnal Green, between a John Grove and Martha Timmins French, both of Bethnal Green. Married by licence on the 18th August 1807. The witnesses were John Grove and what looks remarkably like Martha Grove, although it is a bit feint.

    So, was this John, Martha’s brother? I followed him through the census returns

    1841 HO107/698/13/23/7 – living in Portland Place, Hackney, aged 70, with a Sarah aged 61 and a William aged 30. John is described as Ind.

    1851 HO107/1505/142/11 – living at 4 Portland Place with a couple of servants, aged 80 and described as Clerk in Navy Office, Superannuated.

    1861 RG9/794/8/9 – living in High Road, Tottenham, aged 90, with son William and a couple of grandchildren. He is described as a Fundholder and House Proprietor.

    John died on the 27th October 1861, according to the Probate Calendar and one of the people who proved his will was William Timmins Grove, son.

    None of which helps with Martha......
     
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  12. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Ooh! I have just found the will of John GROVE, Martha's Dad on FMP. Dated 1820 and they were living in Camden Row, Bethnal Green. He is recorded as "Gentleman".

    Given that there was a fair amount of dosh involved (over £10,000), it might be interesting to look for John in property rates etc. This could then give a clue as to where they were living when Martha was born and therefore baptised...

    Just a thought... :)
     
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  13. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Following on from Ann's post #11, the sons listed in the will are:
    John
    William
    Peter
    George
    Joseph
    Martha is mentioned as being married to John Jaques and a previous address for Dad is Montague Street in the Parish of Christchurch.
     
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  14. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    The full will (6 pages of it) is on Anc - I have not read it;)
     
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  15. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    Blimey, that's a will and a half. I've only skimmed through it, but at one point John does say "I give and devise all my freehold estate situate and being in Deeping Fenn in the County of Lincoln......" so, could the family have originated in Lincolnshire?
     
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  16. arthurk

    arthurk Well-Known Member

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    I've had a bit of a look at it too and found a few more names: his mother Mary Grove was alive and living in Bethnal Green when he wrote the will in 1795, and somewhere I found a brother Isaac. While skimming I also noticed a Sarah Heaton, I think, but I didn't find the bit that said who she was.

    Somewhere he mentions receiving annuities (in this case it seems like a kind of early inheritance) from Augustus Scrage? of Southwark and Mrs Elizabeth Storr? of Amher Smith (Hammersmith, presumably), and also his mother.
     
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  17. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    This one a bit far fetched then? Also later baptism for Martha unless Baptised late. A bit removed too from Lincolnshire.

    Martha Groves
    Christening Date 15 Aug 1790
    Christening Place WELLINGTON,SHROPSHIRE,ENGLAND
    Father's Name John Groves
    Mother's Name Elizabeth
    .........
    England Marriages, 1538–1973
    John Groves
    marriage:4 March 1783
    Wellington, Shropshire, England
    spouse:Elizabeth Barns
    ......

    Is it possible that Martha was baptised to a different Mother? Hers having died early & John maybe married again? to Elizabeth.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2017
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  18. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Not sure how this will help, if at all but a Geni tree has her born/baptised 11 November 1782. No hint as to where though. Sorry. :(
     
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  19. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Just sent you the wiki link to her grade 11 listed monument.
    Re- Samuel Grove rector St Mary the Virgin, East Barnet London.
    I would guess that as Samuel was her grandfather then he would most likely have baptised her.
    Grandmother was Martha and it seems her mother as well. Lovely monuments Sis.:)
     
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  20. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    If I have this correct, Martha's mother, Martha died unmarried at age 60 in 1794 so she would have been about 44 when young Martha was born. Unless there is a son who doesn't appear to be buried with the family at St Mary east Barnet.
    Forgot to add the family were French Hugenot, the name originally GROUX
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2017
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