Mary Draper - a sad life.

Discussion in 'Wiltshire' started by The Artful Dodger, May 8, 2014.

  1. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    Here follows the answer from the Archives:
    "151 Fanning, Thomas Digby, son of Mary, of 4 John Street, Whitechapel: to Arthur John Wadsworth, truss manufacturer, of 8 Bell Yd., Gracechurch St. 7 yrs, 20 pounds. 20 April 1846

    Father, many years messenger at the Lambeth Police Court, died 1842, leaving his family totally unprovided for. Mother from Market Lavington."

    Whether or not the Wiltshire Society kept the original Application and what they may have done to confirm the information provided either by Mary or others on her behalf is not known.

    To a certain extent it seems to differ from the information provided by the OPC for Market Lavington, so where do I go from here?
     
  2. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    I believe that slowly I am coming to terms with the Draper - Sainbury's in Wiltshire. It is very messy at the moment and I would like help here, otherwise I'm going to go back to the Archives and pay between 30 & 60 pounds possibly to resolve the matter.

    In West Lavington in 1795 there appears to be 2 marriages:

    Marriage #1:
    Richard Draper married Elizabeth Sainsbury on 24 December 1795. It would appear that they had 2 children:
    David - bapt. 27 September 1800
    Thomas - born 20 January 1804 and bapt. 18 March 1804.

    1841 census - H0107, Piece 1184, Book 5, Folio 8, Page 10:
    Richard age 70 - Ag. Lab.
    Elizabeth age 65
    James age 45 - Ag. Lab.

    4th q. 1842 - vol. 8, page 29 - in Devizes, Wiltshire [which covers West Lavington] there is a death for a Richard Draper - no age given.

    1851 census - H0107, Piece 1839, Folio 271, Page 13:
    Elizabeth age 77
    James age 50 - Ag. Lab.

    1861 census - RG9, Piece 1291, Folio 57, Page 7:
    James age 60 - Ag. Lab.
    Elizabeth - age 85

    All census places - West Lavington.

    Deaths in Devizes:
    1866 - 2nd q. - vol. 5a, page 59 - Elizabeth age 87
    1869 - 2nd q. - vol. 5a, page 58 - James age 73.

    Marriage #2:
    Banns were announced 25 May 1795 for a marriage between John Draper and Elizabeth Sainsbury - Source - Wiltshire, England Marriages, 1538-1837. Another source - England Select Marriages, 1538-1973 - has the following details:
    Name: Elizabeth Sainsbury
    Gender: Female
    Marriage Date: 1795
    Spouse: Blank
    FHL Film Number: 950273
    Reference ID: 2:28SG6B4

    A tree on Ancestry has John and Elizabeth marrying in West Lavington on 25 May 1795 and the following children baptised in West Lavington:
    John - 20 May 1795
    Mary - 2 July 1797 - possibly my Mary as it matches the age at death in 1849
    James - 4 August 1799 - possibly the James above.

    So here is what I think happened:
    1] John Draper got Elizabeth Sainsbury pregnant.
    2] Their son John was born and baptised.
    3] Banns announced 25 May 1795
    4] John Draper did a runner and Elizabeth married Richard.

    Is this a reasonable scenario?
     
  3. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    I think this is a "Red Herring" and can be ignored.
     
  4. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    I've been thinking that maybe John in 1795 wasn't prepared for marriage - but later was.

    A marriage in West Lavington 14 February 1804 to Sarah Mundy and the baptism of 2 children - Mary Ann - 24 June 1810 and James - 31 January 1813 look likely to lead to a final resolution of John after he dumped Elizabeth [if he did].
     
  5. Stafford

    Stafford Well-Known Member

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    Colin I'm not comfortable with Elizabeth marrying twice in the time frame suggested and in the same place. I'm sure bigamy would have been frowned on even then.

    Instinct tells me there were two Elizabeth Sainsburys. I'm currently sorting out three young girls with the same name born months apart in the same area in Buckinghamshire.

    Have you identified the witnesses? I've been browsing records on Family Search for West Lavington baptisms. Whilst Elizabeth Sainsbury is a common name in the area I haven't one/two to fit so far.
     
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  6. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    I agree 100% with your comments about bigamy - I don't think it occurred in this case. The village [West Lavington] was small.

    Not yet had a chance to obtain witnesses for marriage, however I think there was only one marriage. I've not found any baptisms for Elizabeth in West Lavington, but there is one that I like that was in West Kington.
     
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  7. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    In 1841 census - H0107, Piece 1184, Book 5, Folio 17, Page 1 - West Lavington - John and Sarah have a 'possible' daughter named Sarah

    They are all together in 1851 - H0107, Piece 1839, Folio 278, Page 1. All indicated as Paupers.

    In 1861 - RG9, Piece 1291, Folio 64, Page 1 - Sarah [mum] is an Ag. Lab's widow and Sarah [daughter] is a General Servant.

    Could there status [financial] be connected to the events of 1795?
     
  8. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    I have just sent an email to the Archives in Wiltshire asking for details of what is contained in the Marriage Registers for these 2 events in 1795 and am awaiting a response.
     
  9. gillyflower

    gillyflower Always caring about others

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    I think you can discount the two Mary Draper births at West Lavington in 1809 & 1810 I found two marriages which I am sure are the same ones.
     
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  10. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    Looking at a Calendar for 1795 online tells me that 20 May [baptism] was a Wednesday and 25 May [Marriage or Banns] was a Monday. Was my Calendar wrong?
     
  11. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Maybe the transcription was wrong. :confused: However, there should also be other entries apart from 25th May as, according to Canon Law, Banns were required to be announced in the home parishes of both parties on three Sundays before the marriage.
     
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  12. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    One more reason to see what Archives have to say
     
  13. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    Well an answer has been received Here are the details:

    Marriages in West Lavington.
    Marriage #1.

    John DRAPER, carter & Elizabeth SAINSBURY, spinster both of this parish, married after banns 24 May 1795.
    He signed, she marked. Witnesses: Richard Rumble & Thomas Baker. [Baker witnessed many marriages].

    Marriage #2.

    Richard DRAPER & Elizabeth SAINSBURY both of this parish, married after banns 24 Dec. 1795. He signed, she marked. Witnesses: Lott Mead & Thomas Baker.

    I note that in the 1st marriage the marital status of Elizabeth is stated but not for the 2nd - 7 months later. Could there be any significance in this?

    Looks like my next step is to ask about baptisms for these 2 unions between early 1795 and the end of 1799.

    If neither produced a Mary - then I can eliminate these folks.
     
  14. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    I have sent off my application and authorization for an expenditure for 2 hours research - hopefully I'll get some news soon.

    My contact - about the baptism - definitely 2 July 1797 has now stated that maybe her baptismal name wasn't Draper after all. This throws a whole monkey wrench into my plans.

    I have found 4 baptisms for a Mary - without a middle name and no surname - all on 2 July 1797 - could the parents have been paupers and had to give up their child or died - and she was placed with the the John and Elizabeth who married 24 May 1795?
     
  15. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    My contact knows more than she is telling me - possibly because of why
    they think
    I am attempting to dig up 'stuff' that they wish to remain 'their secret' - but I truly want to find a link to her parents. As for the man she married - I have 2 chances 'slim and none' - to find out who his parents are.

    What happened in the past is history - my dad is dead and so are his father's ancestors.

    Am I being naive?
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2014
  16. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Probably another herring in the tin...
    Benjamin Draper married Betty Sainsbury 10/12/1768.
    Wiltshire Parish Registers Market Lavington 1673-1812
     
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  17. dizzyme

    dizzyme Well-Known Member

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    Colin,

    Can't you tell your contact exactly what you've said here about the past etc...

    Some people like to know secrets that others don't! Good Luck
     
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  18. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    Sadly, it isn't going to happen and I have on more than one occasion since 2013 attempted to reconcile.

    Unless my financial investment in archive research turns up something then it may just be a brickwall that won't be demolished.
     
  19. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    May be as you say but I'll check it out.
     
  20. dizzyme

    dizzyme Well-Known Member

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    Fingers crossed you get some good news ;)
     
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