Mary Draper - a sad life.

Discussion in 'Wiltshire' started by The Artful Dodger, May 8, 2014.

  1. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    Well, not exactly good news but news none the less. My initial request and payment for 2 hours research has been received and accepted.

    Here is the reply:
    "It is in the system already and I will do the work as soon as possible".

    Reply received today.
     
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  2. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    Well, as I said in post #39 I have looked at this marriage as well as another between a Daniel Draper and Elizabeth Sainsbury 14 Feb. 1762 in West Lavington.

    Both have a degree of credibility - if either had a daughter named Betty or Elizabeth.

    If such can be found, then could Mary be an illegitimate child? At the moment I cannot find such a suitable baptism, but wonder if I'm missing something?
     
  3. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    A letter has arrived along with the results of 2 hours searching.

    Some things that I have been advised of do not make sense.............. but such is life.

    I have been without a computer since Tuesday so that is my excuse for for not posting until now.
     
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  4. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    We now have the baptism confirmed of Mary Draper - dau. of John & Elizabeth - in West Lavington on 2 July 1797

    My Mary married Thomas Fanning in 1829 --- but the Archivist says that this Mary Draper married in West Lavington on 7 August 1831 to John Chapman and baptised 4 children - 1 in 1834 when Mary would have been aged 37 - and then a gap with no baptisms until 1846 when Mary would have been aged 49 and the last in 1851 when she would have been aged 55.

    This, to me, just does not add up.
     
  5. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    So, to the best of my limited ability, I have looked at everything I can find after the marriage to John Chapman on 7 August 1831 up to their respective deaths and have sent my findings off to the Archivist.

    I am awaiting their reply with interest - if only to prove me wrong.
     
  6. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    If anyone is interested in my findings - send me a message with email address - and I'll forward a copy [along with any responses I get].
     
  7. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    Given what I posted in post #43 as well as another thread - 1841 census look up - so much confusion is reigning that I think I'll crawl under a stone and hibernate!
     
  8. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Let it all percolate in your subconsious for a while, you might work it out in your dreams ;)
     
  9. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    Well the Archivist never responded and Ifolded my tent. A few days ago I received a message that my public tree on Ancestry is wrong about Mary Draper. This person says her parents were Robert Draper and Jane Bozant who married in Market Lavington 25 November 1782.

    I cannot find a Mary baptised in Market Lavington to parents Robert and Jane. The only one I can find is in RUSHALL, Wiltshire 7 August 1798. 2 things are wrong with this possible baptism:
    1] Rushall is at least 115 from Market Lavington
    2] This child was buried 2 days later on 9 August 1798.

    I wonder if this person will respond to my request for birth details of 'their' Mary.
     
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  10. Joanne

    Joanne Well-Known Member

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    I hope they CAN substantiate their info for you
     
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  11. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Will back you on that one Colin because I found it on Family Search. Both baptism and burial
     
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  12. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    Well folks, no response so far - but did find some things of interest however don't quite know how to interpet them.

    1] There was a baptism in Westbury, Wiltshire 5 July 1772 for Elizabeth SAINSBURY dau. of Henry and Katey. Westbury to West Lavington is approx. 10 miles I believe, so this could well be the baptism of Elizabeth

    2] There are several references to marriages in West Lavington for Elizabeth SAINSBURY:
    a1] Source - England and Wales Marriages, 1538-1940 - John DRAPER and Elizabeth 24 May 1795 in West Lavington
    a2] Source - Wiltshire, England, Marriages 1538-1837 - John DRAPER and Elizabeth. 24 May 1795 Elizabeth was a spinster. Document type - Banns. Notes - John is a Carter.
    a3] Source - England, Select Marriages, 1538-1973 - John DRAPER and Elizabeth - year 1795. FHL Film Number 950273. Reference ID 2 28SG6B4.

    and
    b1] Source - England and Wales Marriages, 1538-1940 - Richard DRAPER and Elizabeth 24 December 1795 in West Lavington.
    b2] Source - Wiltshire, England, Marriages, 1538-1837 - Richard DRAPER and Elizabeth 24 December 1795. Document type - Banns. There is no reference to Elizabeth's marital status or Richard's occupation.
    b3] Source - England, Select Marriages, 1538-1973 - Richard DRAPER and Elizabeth - year 1795. FHL Film Number 950273. Reference ID 2 28SG6DJ

    3] I have discovered a death for a John Draper Oct-Dec q. 1840 vol. 8, page 217 - Devizes R.D. Devizes R.D. covers West Lavington, Market Lavington, Potterne and Urchfont amongst others. There is no age indicated for the John in this death record nor can I find a burial.

    4] I have an 1841 census - H0107, Piece 1184, Book 5, Folio 8 page 10 for a Richard age 70, Elizabeth age 65 and James Draper age 45. Residence - West Lavington. Occupation of Richard and James - Ag. Lab.'s.

    5] There have been indications that on occasion, Elizabeth Draper had been known as Betty. I have an 1841 census for a Betty Draper - H0107, Piece 1184, Book 7, Folio 26 page 9 age 65. Residence - Potterne.

    6] A Richard Draper died Oct-Dec q. 1842 in Devizes - again no age is noted.

    7] An Elizabeth Draper died Jul-Sep q. 1846 vol. 8, page 203 in Devizes R.D.

    8] 1851 census - H)107, Piece 1839, Folio 271, Page 13 and 1861 - RG9, Piece 1291, Folio 57 page 7 find Elizabeth a widow with son James unmarried in Weest Lavington

    9] There are no less than 5 deaths for an Elizabeth Draper in Devizes R.D between Jan-Mar q. 1861 and Apr-Jun q. 1866. The last one indicates a birth year of 1779

    10] There is a death of a Betty Draper in Devizes R.D. Apr-Jun q. 1866. Her age is stated as 85 - born c. 1781

    I know I have rabbited on in this thread but I am really chasing my rear-end. Can some one sort of the wheat from the chaff for me?
     
  13. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

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    It's not discrimination against you, Colin: age at death just isn't given in the GRO death index until 1866. The age was recorded by local registrars and in the copies of information sent to the GRO, so it will be on death certificates, just not in the index and therefore not in FreeBMD etc.

    Some of the online local registrars' indexes do include age at death before 1866. Luckily for you the Wiltshire BMD site is one of those:
    http://www.
    wiltshirebmd.org.uk/index.php

    Like other such sites it is a work in progress. Click on the birth/marriage/death tabs at top right to search or for details of dates & places covered in the index.
     
  14. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    Thanks for this. Yesterday was not one of my 'better days' [medically] but now I can check that website.
     
  15. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    On Ancestry - GRO death index 1837-1915 - there were 11 Elizabeth Draper's listed. Of the 11, I can eliminate several since the year of birth is after 1790 - and we have our Elizabeth marrying in 1795 - so am left with the following:
    Elizabeth - born abt. 1779 marriage 1795 died Lavington 1866
    Elizabeth - born abt. 1774 marriage 1795 died Lavington 1863.

    Either of these 2 could fit the the woman found in 1841 census with Richard and James and 1851 and 1861 census with just a son James and a widow.

    As I mentioned there is also a possibility that Elizabeth became known as Betty in later years and there are 2 Betty Draper's:
    Betty - born abt. 1772 marriage 1795 died Bromham and Potterne 1841
    Betty - born abt. 1781 marriage 1795 died Lavington 1866

    I can eliminate the Betty who died in 1866 as she can be found in 1861 census as an 80 year old unmarried lady born in Easterton, Wilts.

    I cannot reconcile the connection with the situation marriages in 1795 between John and Richard Draper with an Elizabeth Sainsbury, so that leaves me only with the Betty that died in 1841 - born 1772.

    Am I still suffering the effects of yesterday?
     
  16. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    Still looking at Betty as a possible.

    Have found a Betty Sainsbury who was baptised in Westbury 3 October 1777 dau. of John and Sarah. I have not found a marriage for a Betty Sainsbury with a father John in Wiltshire.There is a death in Westbury for a Betty Sainsbury in 1845 on Wiltshire BMD hover he age was given as 75.
     
  17. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    Reactivating this thread as a result of an Ancestry HINT!! What do the experts think?

    I had a bit of a "bad night" and after a rummage on here couldn't find any references to what I am about to post. If I have previously posted please point me in the right direction.

    Originally, I had run the gauntlet that my Elizabeth/Betty Sainsbury was born in West Lavington and baptised in West Kington 1779 and that her parents were John and Elizabeth Sainsbury. The actual date was confirmed by an Archivist as 24 Nov. 1779.

    I discovered that West Lavington and West Kington were over 25 miles distance apart and I wasn't comfortable with that.

    Elizabeth/Betty Sainsbury married John Draper in West Lavington 24 May 1795. Given the date of baptism [1779] and marriage [1795] the age would be approx. 16 not impossible ---but???

    I know that my Mary Draper was baptised 2 July 1797 however from the Archivist the place of baptism was illegible. The parents were John and Elizabeth.

    I am now aware of another Elizabeth/Betty Sainsbury and she 'appears' to tick some boxes to bring her into focus as the correct one.

    On 5 July 1772 to parents Henry and Katy Sailsbury in Westbury, Wilts. a daughter Elizabeth was baptised.
    Henry Salisbury was baptised in Westbury 17 Sep. 1746 - father Henry [no mother named] and he married a widow Katy BIGWOOD in Westbury 19 Dec. 1771. A Henry died and was buried in Westbury 17 Nov. 1774.

    Westbury and West Lavington are less than 10 miles apart. Could Elizabeth/Betty have been working in West Lavington as a domestic servant and then was married to John Draper 24 May 1795? If this is the correct person then the age is closer to my perception of reality -- 23.

    If this is in fact my rightful parents of Elizabeth/Betty then I would like to develop some information on Katy BIGWOOD prior to her marriage to Henry and after his death.
     
  18. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    I have found a marriage in Westbury, Wilts. for Samuel BIGWOODS [no image available] to Katy HUNT 15 Jun. 1758.

    I have found 2 possible burials for a Samuel BIGWOOD:
    2 Oct. 1769 in Westbury - no other details
    18 Feb. 1770 in Westbury - son of Samuel and Israel. I think we can discount this one as a Samuel - son of Samuel and Israel - was baptised in Westbury 5 Apr. 1768.
     
  19. Barb

    Barb New Member

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    I have read your posts about Mary Draper with great interest. I am trying to find out information about her brother John (the second one born 1801). I believe he and his wife Sarah Master (married 1823) emigrated to Canada and settled in Aylwin Quebec. I can't help you with Mary but I appreciate your frustration. The English records are much easier to follow than the trail to Canada in about 1829. They lived in the backwoods of Canada at that time.
    Sarah died or never survived the passage as there are mentions of her children but none of her.
     
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  20. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    Welcome to Top Dog, Barb.

    I'll have a look -see about your John and if I find anything, I'll start a conversation.

    As a suggestion. why not post your details of John and link that thread to this one? Maybe something will come out the undergrowth that will assist both of us.
     
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