McLEANs in Leeds, 1900

Discussion in 'Ask The Experts' started by kernowmaid, Nov 8, 2017.

  1. kernowmaid

    kernowmaid Well-Known Member

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    This has been niggling at me for a while, so I'm having one last go before I move on! (If it seems familiar, that's because it started from the thread about converting pdf to jpg - which I think I've mastered :))

    My great-great-aunt ANN CLANCY married a MCLEAN & had several children, the eldest 2 being Teresa and JANE. In chronological order, this is what I have:

    - 5 April 1891 (RG12, Piece 3881, Folio 17) - MCLEAN family at Hodgsons Terrace, Kirkgate, Tadcaster. (Ann 31y, Jane 10y)

    - 28 April 1900 - ERNEST CLANCY MCLEAN born at 7 MONKTON ROAD, Hunslet, Leeds. Mother JINNIE MCLEAN, Woollen Weaver.
    - 14 August 1900 - ERNEST CLANCY MCLEAN died at 7 MONKTON ROAD, Hunslet. Malnutrition Diarrhoea. Son of JINNY MCLEAN.

    - 31 March 1901 (RG13, Piece 4195, Folio 76, Page 12) - MCLEAN family at 15 Derby Place, Hunslet. (Ann 41y, Jane 20y - Kitchen Maid).

    - 22 July 1901 - JOHN VINCENT MCLEAN born at 7 MONKTON ROAD, Hunslet. Mother Ann, formerly CLANCY.
    - Q4 1901 (Holbeck vol 9b pg 214) - JOHN VINCENT MCLEAN died age 0y.

    - 10 May 1902 - JANE MCLEAN married H R MYERS & went on to have 3 boys, one of whom died 1908.
    - 2 April 1911 - JANE MYERS at 6 Rhodes Street Holbeck declares 3 children, 1 of whom is dead.

    What I don't understand is the role of 7 MONKTON ROAD, HUNSLET, before & after the 1901 Census.
    And it makes me wonder whether JANE really is JINNIE ...
    Or is there a real JINNIE MCLEAN in Hunslet?

    Can anyone find her? Please?
    (Certs attached - just because I can!)
    Jane 1900 Ernest Clancy MCLEAN (b).jpg ERNEST CLANCY MCLEAN - Death-page-001.jpg 1901 John Vincent CLANCY (b).jpg 1902 MCLEAN-MYERS.jpg
     
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  2. arthurk

    arthurk Well-Known Member

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    When I commented on this before I got one of the addresses wrong. I had it as Derby Street, whereas the address in 1901 was Derby Place. And the address where the children were born was 7 Monkton Road.

    Have a look at this photo, which Sis kindly found before:
    Code:
    http://www.leodis.net/display.aspx?resourceIdentifier=2003528_38029116
    7 Monkton Road is the nearest of that row of houses.

    Now look at this map:
    Code:
    http://maps.nls.uk/view/125642467
    Unfortunately I can't give a link to it as zoomed in, but go to the bottom left hand corner, and find Dewsbury Road - a main road with a tramway running north-south. It meets the edge of the map above the key to symbols etc by the words "West Hunslet Ward".

    Monkton Road is a few streets up on the right, and looking at the property boundaries shown, and comparing it with the photo, I'm pretty sure that No.7 will be the one by the K in Monkton.

    I originally said that Derby Street was just round the corner (it is), but if it's Derby Place, then it's the one that runs parallel to Monkton Road. And if you count the houses on Derby Place (odd numbers on the left hand side), you'll see that No.15 backs on to 7 Monkton Road - from the map, it looks as though they could have been genuine back-to-backs with no garden between.

    So my guess is that they had these two adjacent properties which they were running as one household, and they had their babies in the Monkton Road part.

    This would also help to explain why in 1901 they had 6 rooms when their neighbours only had 3. And with a household of 2 parents and 9 offspring ranging from age 22 to 2, I expect they needed them.
     
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  3. kernowmaid

    kernowmaid Well-Known Member

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    Thank you Arthur.
    Now that would explain A LOT!

    Jane
     
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  4. arthurk

    arthurk Well-Known Member

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    Also - I forgot to mention before - it would explain why there's no-one at 7 Monkton Road in the 1901 census, since the occupants regarded it as part of the household in Derby Place.
     
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  5. Jellylegs

    Jellylegs Well-Known Member

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    I think the three children of Jane were:-
    Albert born 1902
    Harry born 1901
    Frank born 1908 (Sep quarter) Holbeck reg. district

    Albert and Harry are on the 1911 census with Jane.

    There is a death registration of a Frank Myers in the December quarter of 1908 - Holbeck reg. district. (Age is given as 2 - but I expect the certificate would say 2 months or even 2 weeks), so this could be the one child of Jane's that has died.

    The other thing is (though I cannot find her on a census) the Jinny McLean had a child in 1911, so surely, she must be someone other than Jane.
     
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  6. arthurk

    arthurk Well-Known Member

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    I got so carried away with maps and addresses that I completely forgot that I was going to comment on the Jane/Jinnie question.

    Quite apart from the matter of the adjoining houses, I was going to say that the Jinnie who had Ernest Clancy McLean must surely be connected to the family in Derby Place, where the mother's maiden name was McLean. And as I think was pointed out in the other thread, some of us have come across Jinnie as a variant of Jane.

    But now, I'm wondering about this:
    I don't remember seeing that. If it's the first entry that Jane put up, the 0's in 1900 are faint on the right hand side so it looks a bit like 1911, but I'm sure it isn't that.
     
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  7. arthurk

    arthurk Well-Known Member

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    A couple of burials, from the Yorkshire Indexers site. They don't match exactly, but I don't know if that's a mistake in the original or in the transcription. Still, they're probably close enough to be taken into account:

    18 Aug 1900 - Ernest Glancy McLean, 3 mo, of 7 Hunslet Road, buried in Leeds Catholic Cemetery (Killingbeck) - d. 15 Aug

    17 Oct 1908 - Frank Myers, 2 mo, of Emerald Street, Holbeck, s of Frank Myers, buried in Holbeck Cemetery

    In both cases they appear to be graves with lots of unrelated people.
     
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  8. Jellylegs

    Jellylegs Well-Known Member

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    I obviously need to go to Specsavers :rolleyes: - 1900 it is - apologies.
     
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  9. kernowmaid

    kernowmaid Well-Known Member

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    Hi Jellylegs - Where did you find Jinny McLean having a child in 1911? That would set my mind at rest, but ... as Arthur points out, the Birth Cert for 1900 does look like 1911 ...

    The Myers-McLean children born between the censuses are indeed Albert, Harry & Frank.
    And Frank's death in Q4 1908 is recorded as Age 0 in the Register (source: freebmd). The GRO have wrongly recorded it as 2y.

    Arthur - thank you for the Burial information - another gap filled! Literally :rolleyes:

    Jane

    Edited - Thank you for checking, Jellylegs! I did so want you to be right (don't like the idea of Ernest having died of malnutrition, and not being acknowledged by his mother in 1911)
     
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  10. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    You will find with the recording of deaths on the GRO no matter what age the child died they will put what number appears on the death cert. This will then appear to be years but in fact may be months or weeks.

    Cross reference it with FMP or Freebmd. If the GRO says 2 and FMP or Freebmd says 0 then you can bet your bottom dollar that age at death was either 2 weeks or 2 months.

    I don't suppose the GRO when producing their online index even thought of adding weeks or months to their ages. After all the database was done some time ago and for internal use. At the time publishing them as a searchable index didn't even cross their minds.
     
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  11. Grizel

    Grizel Well-Known Member

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    http://www.
    leodis.net/display.aspx?resourceIdentifier=2003528_76581973&DISPLAY=FULL
    This comment describes just the sort of living situation you are suggesting Arthur!
     
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  12. arthurk

    arthurk Well-Known Member

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    You're too modest! I was expecting this to be about a generic back-to-back situation, but it actually refers to Derby Place and Monkton Road. Great find!
     
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