Missing beginnings for a Blacksmith

Discussion in 'Smiths & Wheelwrights' started by Ma-dotcom, Jan 17, 2015.

  1. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Can anyone answer this for me please?

    A man b. 1824 +-2, listed as a blacksmith in 1861 census & beyond. I cannot find his birth (Cranbrook) nor positive sighting in 1841 or 1851 to see when he became a smithy. Only found one single in chap of the name 1841 boarding out- a dealer. (Goudhurst)

    Could a man work with someone & become a blacksmith just like that or must he have had an apprentice-ship.? If so where can I find such records? I've looked on Kent ap.blacksmiths site & found nothing. His alleged Father was a farmer so perhaps he learned it at home?
    I did wonder if this chap had changed his fore-name before marriage perhaps having skipped out on a training Master, soley because I hadn't found his birth or early censuses.

    He belongs to a previous thread but it just gets lost.
     
  2. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    One of my g.g.grandads was a blacksmith. I did not know he had apprentices but I found a newspaper report when one of them had stolen from him. On the census (he died in 1851) there are young men listed with the family as lodgers - so they could be the ones he was teaching. I do not think he did anything 'formal' he just had lads working with him who he taught his skills. It was the press that called the boy an apprentice.
    Why not give us the name on this thread and see if anyone can locate him.
     
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  3. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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  4. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    Anc have the bap of Isaac Thompson 22/6/1823 at Cranbrook, Kent
    father John mother Frances.
    So is this your Isaac and the m/c is wrong with father William?
     
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  5. Ken_R

    Ken_R Well-Known Member

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    Farmers. Well, certain Farmers, can not only be quite inventive but also tight with money. Hence, even today, if something can be welded, fabricated, or otherwise cobbled together, then they will do it themselves.

    You probably don't get the TV programme Scrapheap Challenge where you are but, on the rare occasions that I have watched it, it is normally the team of 'Farmers', where they compete, that have won.

    I'm sure it was the same even back then when Engineering tolerances would have been much wider. I can envisage that any farm of a decent size would have a Forge of some sort, to repair ploughs and other Farm machinery, or to make/repair gate hinges, etc. We've even got a small gas Forge where I go to 'play with the trains'.

    I tend to view Blacksmiths in two ways. The Master Blacksmith who produces swords and weapons of War, or who makes the steel tyre that fits onto the wooden wheel made by the Wheelwright, (or did a Wheelwright also do his own Forge work?) and the 'jobbing Blacksmith' who makes the horse shoes, and the general ironmongery required within the community.

    Another TV programme a couple of years ago featured complete novices who, over I think about 3 weeks (5 days a week) were taught 'Smithy' skills to an extent that at the end, they each designed and made a decorative wrought iron garden gate.

    In fact, I still have a wrought iron 'toasting fork' with twisted and swirly bits that I made at Skool.

    Could a person be brought up on a Farm, acquiring skills, and then earn a living as a Blacksmith? I don't see any reason why not.
     
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  6. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Bless you MollyMay, I did see that in my early search & thought it must have been FamilySearch. Had been struggling abit with thought processess recently, coming out of the fog now.
    Isaac names his father as William on marriage & 1841 census had a William perhaps it was a 2nd forename & he switched about or just a mixup at baptism [perish the thought].
    I've been toggling betwix Berkshire & Oz & nearly missed your reply. so gladI got up early!

    edit can't wait to look, unable to get back into Anc. just now.
     
  7. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Ken, thank you, I did think it likely, otherwise how would farms have managed?

    One of my Sons made me a natty little black flower pot holder to attach to a post, had to leave it when we changed houses, was getting a touch of rust anyhoo.
     
  8. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

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    I come from a long line of blacksmiths. :) Grandfather, however, steered well clear of shoeing horses (that's him in the avatar) and did the most ornate ironwork - everything from spiral staircases to fire irons.

    I don't think qualifications/apprenticeships for farriery came in until much later, therefore anyone could - or attempt to - trim and shoe horses' hooves. Generally, though, I'd expect a 'blacksmith' to cover all of the above.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2015
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  9. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    Sorry Wendy I should have said it was only a transcription not the original.
     
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  10. Ken_R

    Ken_R Well-Known Member

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    I'm envious. I've never been 'artistic'. Basically, if something doesn't conform to a 'plumb line' or a 'spirit level', or to a schematic drawing, then I'm 'kn______d'.

    Not so much now but, in years past I could look at a schematic for an electrical circuit and understand the effect of every component.
     
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  11. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    You can view the original on FS if you are 'a signed in member'
     
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  12. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    >Ken, Different 'strokes' for different blokes??
     
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  13. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Tried tht some time back was told my local person would contact me when my time came or some such. 2 or 3 weeks ago tried same, such a long winded singing up I think I quit at the end while waiting to understand what the heck they wanted from me, other than to fill in a 'do you like us 'form'. & yes I do & yes I recommend them. ;)
     
  14. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    I tried to sign up too, got as far as needing an email from them to confirm activation - still waiting and waiting......
     
  15. SandieHall

    SandieHall Active Member

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    My family have a long line of Blacksmith's / Farriers from the 1700. If in UK they would have Indentured Apprentice usually at about 15/16 years of age until 21. A parent would most likely have to pay a fee to the craftsman to take on his son a contract would be signed binding them to serve the master for seven years in exchange for learning his trade.

    The Indenture system is hundreds of years old and is traditionally a binding agreement between the apprentice and their master. At the end of the Apprenticeship the Apprentice will receive official papers and a certificate detailing their completion of the Indentured Apprenticeship.
    The same thing today is City and Guild Craft and Advanced Craft Certificates

    Wikipedia
    The system of apprenticeship first developed in the later Middle Ages and came to be supervised by craft guilds and town governments. A master craftsman was entitled to employ young people as an inexpensive form of labour in exchange for providing food, lodging and formal training in the craft. Most apprentices were males, but female apprentices were found in crafts such as seamstress,tailor, cordwainer, baker and stationer.Apprentices usually began at ten to fifteen years of age, and would live in the master craftsman's household. Most apprentices aspired to becoming master craftsmen themselves on completion of their contract (usually a term of seven years), but some would spend time as a journeyman and a significant proportion would never acquire their own workshop.

    (clickies removed as Wikipedia asks for donations)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 17, 2015
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  16. SandieHall

    SandieHall Active Member

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  17. SandieHall

    SandieHall Active Member

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    sorry about that
     
  18. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Thanks SandieH, I've just been through the rigs chasing an 'appy' in Sussex- tanner- & am about to order a CD on settlement orders etc. which may or not help.

    I wonder with Isaac if being a farmers lad who may well have learned at home or with close family, the Father may not have had extra money to pay for an apprenticeship.
    (I must remember to press post button)
     
  19. SandieHall

    SandieHall Active Member

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    Occupations were usually handed down in families I have ie a Blacksmith would take on his Brothers son as apprentice, the fee was paid in 2 payments half when the apprenticeship starts and the 2 payment after a few years.
     
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  20. Blackmogs

    Blackmogs Moderator. General Dogs(cats)body. Staff Member

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    Bummocks, spent ages recovering my sign in details for FS, got in, pulled up the record and there was a little camera to show there was an image. Clicked on the image to be told I could only view that image from a Family History Centre or to members of supporting organisations. That means that Kent County Council has still not allowed the images to be seen other than at their main Record Office in Maidstone or at FHC. That is why I left the User Group. KCC is complete and utter rubbish.
     

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