Missing Murrell siblings

Discussion in 'Surrey' started by annabel, Sep 28, 2022.

  1. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    I'm trying to find what happened to some of the children of William Murrell 1806 - 1849 and Sarah 1803 - 1859
    In 1841, 1064 Book: 9 Folio: 32 Page number: 3 St Mary Newington are:

    William Murrell 30
    Sarah 35
    William 8
    Sarah 6
    Mary Ann 4
    Harriett 2
    Frederick 1
    This is the only place I can find Sarah age 6 and Frederick appearing. Oddly, Mary Ann had another middle name of Sarah too.

    In 1851 Household schedule number 240 Piece 1567 Folio 664 Page number 45 are:

    Sarah Murrell 47
    Mary Ann Murrell 13
    Harriet F Murrell 12
    James Murrell 10
    Joseph P Murrell 8
    Jane L Murrell 5
    Apart from his baptism in 1846 I can find nothing more about James. Joseph P is I think Joseph John, who I may have found as Joseph a batchelor later on.

    I have found the other siblings, but is anyone able to anything more of these 3? Thank you
     
  2. Murfomurf

    Murfomurf Well-Known Member

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    For the parents, are we looking at this marriage? From FS

    William Murrell
    England Marriages, 1538–1973
    Marriage 3 May 1832
    Bermondsey, Surrey, England
    Spouse Sarah Abbott
     
  3. Jellylegs

    Jellylegs Well-Known Member

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    Apart from thinking that Frederick on 1841 census is James on 1851 census (a number of marriages for a James MURRELL, but not checked), the only thing I cam up with was:-

    Sarah on the 1841 census was baptised Elizabeth Jane on 8 Jan 1836 (born 3 Feb 1835) - father was William, a Leather dresser, mother Sarah, the same as the other baptisms I've found for children. She married Thomas Briggs MORPHEW on 18 June 1854 at St James Bermondsey, Southwark and her father is named as William, dec'd.
     
  4. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    yes that's the one
     
  5. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    I have all about Elizabeth Jane, but I had not considered that she was Sarah. I have never found her in 1841, but I have her in 1851 and beyond. The names are so different, and she never seemed to call herself Sarah again.
     
  6. Jellylegs

    Jellylegs Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes the enumerators got it wrong when copying from the original Form that was completed, onto the census, so that may have been the problem. I couldn't find a baptism for a Sarah.
     
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  7. Murfomurf

    Murfomurf Well-Known Member

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    From another angle, I have found some civil registrations for some children Murrell on FreeBMD and one with mother Abbot in GRO, and they contain some of the names on the Census but in different order:

    FreeBMD:
    Births Sep 1838
    MURRELL Harriet Fowler Bermondsey 4 8

    Births Dec 1840
    MURRELL Francis Thomas Frederick Strand 1 326

    Births Mar 1842
    MURRELL William James Lambeth 4 312

    Births Jun 1842
    MURRELL James Wells Clerkenwell 3 111

    Sep 1841
    Murray John Edward Frederick Newington 4 330

    Murray John Frederick Newton Newington 4 33[0_]a

    Births Mar 1843
    Murrell Joseph John Newington 4 372

    Births Jun 1846
    Murrell Jane Lydia Newington 4 390

    GRO:
    MURRELL, JOSEPH JOHN ABBOTT GRO Reference: 1843 M Quarter in ST. MARY NEWINGTON Volume 04 Page 372

    Any use?
     
  8. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    Thanks for looking.
    Harriet, Joseph John and Jane are definitely correct, I know about them. The others could be related, but I have no idea how. The mother's maiden names when checked on the GRO are not familiar at all
     
  9. Andromeda

    Andromeda Well-Known Member

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    An outside possibility for James in various asylums in 1861-1891

    1861 - Eagle House Asylum, Mitcham, Surrey
    James Morrell 18 Chair Maker b Southwark (St Saviour)

    1871 - Caterham Asylum, Surrey
    James Murrell 29 Cabinet Maker b London

    1881 - Caterham Asylum, Surrey (Metropolitan Dist Asylum For Imbeciles)
    James Murrell 37 Cabinet Maker b Not Known

    1891 - Caterham Asylum, Surrey
    James Murrell 46 Cabinet Maker b Not Known

    Death registered in 1899, aged 55.
     
  10. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    That is very interesting. Apparently Eagle house was an industrial school that took boys from Southwark, and connected to Holborn asylum. In the absence of anything else, I'm inclined to think you've found him. Poor boy stuck in there his whole life!
    More to look at, and perhaps I should look for something similar for other Murrells. Thank you
     
  11. Andromeda

    Andromeda Well-Known Member

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    Hmm, looking a bit closer into it, I'm not so sure.

    There is a workhouse admission on 25 July 1860 under the name James Bothick Morrell. I can't make out all of the writing but it says he was insane, weak mind from birth, and also mentions Eagle House. Unfortunately I think it says he was brought by his father, and there's the problem.....the 1851 census you referenced say's his mother was a widow.

    There may be other entries though as there's a discharge from Mint Street workhouse (Southwark) on 10 Jun 1857 of a James Murrell 'to the County Lunatic Asylum'.

    I'll see if I can find anything else to rule him in/out definitively.
     
  12. Andromeda

    Andromeda Well-Known Member

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    And just to add to the confusion, there's an admission to Mint Street workhouse on 30 May 1857 of a James Murrell "Insane. Brought by wife from 68 Tower St. Engineer". Must be the one that matches the 10 June discharge.

    Unfortunately there's no age stated, but by the fact that he's married I think we can discount those two entries.
     
  13. Andromeda

    Andromeda Well-Known Member

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    So it looks like this is the chap at Eagle House:

    MORRELL, JAMES BOTHICK mmn BOTHICK GRO Reference: 1842 D Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 04 Page 286

    He's in the 1851 census with his parents Henry & Susan at James Street, Saint Mary, Lambeth.

    My only hesitation is that the person at Eagle House was a chair maker, and the person at Caterham was a cabinet maker, so I'm still not sure whether or not they're the same man, or two different people.
     
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  14. Murfomurf

    Murfomurf Well-Known Member

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    I would bet on them being the same. Any family members at asylum admission are likely to be a bit incoherent, and staff forget things due to the high emotional level. It still happens - I remember a woman admitted in a manic state being noted as a Singer when in fact she was a Machinist. You can see where that got derailed!
     
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  15. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    Ah, it does look like james Bothick etc is not my man after all. I did notice that his stated ages were inclined to be a bit too young, but they do fit better with this man. Murrell is a surprisingly difficult name to find correctly.
     

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