Mrs Emma Veal(e)

Discussion in 'General Family History Queries' started by Peregrine, Aug 27, 2016.

  1. Peregrine

    Peregrine Well-Known Member

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    Mrs Emma Veal(e) died at her residence, 17 Princes Street, St Just on Sunday, February 11, 1906. Amongst her mourners were her son, James, her sister, Mrs W. Hutchens, nieces, Misses C. and M. Hutchens, and nephew, Mr F. Hutchens. Two sons, Rd. Veal and W. Veal were living in Tamarack, Michigan, U.S.A.

    Now I believe that Emma’s husband was James Veal(e) born 16 Jan 1857 at Kelynack, Cornwall and baptised 31 Oct 1858 at St Just in Penwith; F: William Veal; M: Mary Jane Harvey.

    In the 1880 US Census James (23) and Emma Veal (17) and their one-year-old son, James are living with her parents, George (31) and Anna Maria (33) Perrow, and siblings Richard, Annie, Freddie and Minnie Perrow. Note: the father George seems a bit young to be Emma’s biological father.

    In the 1891 England Census, Emma Veal is living at Princes Street, St Just with her three sons: James (10), Richard (9) and William (7) who were all born in Colorado. Emma is given as born at Liskeard, Cornwall and is aged 27. Her sister, Annie Payne (17) and her son, Freddy Payne (2) are also living with her: Annie Payne listed as born in Colorado and Freddy born in St Just.

    In the 1900 US Census, James (38) and Emma (36) Veal are living at Cripple Creek, Teller, Colorado with their three sons: James (17), Richard (14), and William T Veal (13). James is stated to be born in England, but Emma and her three sons are listed as born in Colorado.

    The 1901 England Census has Emma Veal (37) living at 6 Bosorn Road, St Just, with sons, Richard (19) and William T. (17) and nephew, Frederick Payne (12). Emma is shown as born at Liskeard, her sons born in Colorado and her nephew at St Just.

    To make things more confusing, on young Richard Veale’s marriage certificate his parents are listed as James and Emma Veale and Emma’s maiden name is given as Payne (not Perrow). Richard married Anna Moriarty at Butte, Silver Bow, Montana on 15 Apr 1907.

    Now Emma’s supposed parents are George and Hannah/Anna Maria Warmington and I have found a marriage for them on 5 Sep 1872 in St Gluvius, Penryn, Cornwall, but that’s well after the birth of both Emma and her brother Richard (born abt. 1867). Note: George is stated to be a bachelor and Hannah is stated to be a spinster.

    So are Emma and Richard the children of Anna/ Hanna Maria and someone other than George Perrow? George was born at Phillack about 1849 to George Perrow and Elizabeth Corin. And Hannah Maria Warmington was baptised 4 Mar 1842 at St Gluvias, her parents being Richard Warmington and Sarah Grimaldi.

    I cannot find a baptism for an Emma Perrow but I have found one for an Emma Payne bap 8 Nov 1864 at Menheniot; F: Richard Payne; M: Anna Maria Goldsworthy. Menheniot is 3.2 miles from Lisekard. In addition, the same parents baptised a Richard Payne at Menheniot on 18 Mar 1867.

    I am totally confused and confusicated. What is going on with this lot?
     
  2. GrannyBarb

    GrannyBarb Custodian of the Family Accounts

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    On the surface, it sounds like there are two Emma's living in alternate parallel universes. :confused:

    Have you viewed the original images on these census reports? Is there a chance the ones in St. Just are using an abbreviation that resembles Colorado, but is something else? I don't have any subs to view UK records at the moment.
     
  3. GrannyBarb

    GrannyBarb Custodian of the Family Accounts

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    Well, I looked and didn't find much more than you already have:
    via HeritageQuest

    1880 Nevadaville, Gilpin, Co.

    Emma in Perrow household has Rheumatism
    Freddie and Minnie, both b. Co have measles.

    down the page a bit is a Thomas Veal (26) miner w wife Mary (29) and boarders, one of which is Joseph Perrow (42) miner all b. England
    =======================================

    1900 Cripple creek Teller Co, Colorado
    James Veal b. May 1862, England married 18 yrs, immigrated 1874, 26 yrs in US, naturalized
    Emma Veal b. June, 1864, Colorado, parents b. England. married 18 yrs, 3children born all living
    James Jr, B. May, 1883
    Richard b. June, 1886
    William T, Apr, 1997 alll Colo

    =======================================

    1910 Dist 0185, Victor Ward 1, Teller Co, Colorado
    James Veil, 45, 2nd marriage 5 yrs, b. England, immigrated 1880, naturalized, miner (gold)
    Mary Veil, 42, 3rd marriage, 5 yrs, 2 children both living, b. England. immigrated 1889
    Joseph Rush, 15, step-son, b. Colorado, father German, mother English

    Not sure if this is the same James.
    =======================================

    1896 Boulder Co directory index lists Richard Veal, miner

    =======================================

    1885 Gilpin Co, Colorado State Census
    James Veal, 23, married in boarding house with other miners run by Ellen Veal, 35, divorced... all b. England. No sign of Emma and kids.

    =======================================

    1890 Poll Tax payers, Nevadaville, Gilpin Co, Colorado:
    Veal, James
    Veal, Ths.

    foothillsgenealogy.org

    I looked at the Colorado GenWeb, but really didn't find much help.

    If I have time later, I'll give a look-see at Michigan. Gotta clean litter boxes while I have a bit of energy.
     
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  4. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    Definitely says Colorado, America on the original
     
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  5. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    According to Familysearch:
    The son James Veale died 21 Nov 1944 in Detroit, Wayne, Michigan, Oregan. Born 3 May 1880 in Denver Colorado, mother Emma Payne, father James

    William T Veale died 15 March 1920 Tacoma, Pierce, Washington age 35 years, 2 months, 17 days, same parents

    Annie Payne born 1873 spinster, married William Hutchens widower, (from the original death notice) 28th May 1898 in St Just. Father Richard Payne
     
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  6. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    In 1871 North Brentor, Devon:
    Emma Payne b 1864 Menheniot is with her brother Richard b 1867 and their mother Anna M Payne b 1845 Tywardreath, Cornwall. Anna is a miner's wife and a visitor to her sister in law and mother in law, both called Fanny. Following the family back found her husband Richard in 1851, he was born 1841 in Milton Abbott, Devon

    Here is an idea, but it may be fantasy: This Anna M is about the same age as Anna Maria Pellow. I wonder if husband Richard had gone to the US after son Richard was born in 1867. Anna stayed until at least 1871. Then they joined him and Annie was born 1873. Then Richard died there and Anna married George Pellow, and Freddie and Minnie were born. If true, then the Pellow/ Warmington marriage would be in doubt as they married before Annie was born. Perhaps there's a Pellow/ Payne one?
    Unfortunately I haven't got a sub to check the US parts of this theory
     
  7. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    This 1880 census with Perrow's has son James 1 year old. Born 1879-1880.
    This 1900 census has James Jnr 17 years old born 1883.
     
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  8. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    What's the handwriting like? Is it possible their ages are mis transcribed from 21, 19 and 18?
     
  9. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    1900 census, James born May 1883 age 17, Richard born June 1886 age 14, William T born April 1887 age 13. James Snr 38, 26 years in country although year of arrival is 1874. He must have come as a youngster. Emma is 36 born Colorado.
     
  10. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Do we know how old this Emma was when she died?
    Just found her. She was 43
     
  11. Peregrine

    Peregrine Well-Known Member

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    Sorry I have unexpectedly ended up minding my granddaughter and my day has been blown away. Will try and review after my dinner, you have all been busy in my absence. Thank you.
     
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  12. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    Ancestry took me to a website Byu idaho which says that George Perrow married Anna M Payne 29th May 1880, Gilpin, Colorado
     
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  13. GrannyBarb

    GrannyBarb Custodian of the Family Accounts

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    Good on you! Yesterday I downloaded a massive index of Colorado marriages from the Denver Public Library, but didn't find any of these folks. :oops:
     
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  14. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    There is a death of Richard Payne born about 1843, married, died Nov 1879 of Pneumonia, Nevadaville, Gilpin, Colorado in US Federal Census Mortality Schedule on Ancestry. There may be more, but I can't read it
     
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  15. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    If anyone can read more it might give some insight, because I have just seen that Minnie Perrow was born 1878, and Freddie in 1876, before this Richard died.
     
  16. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    Found this (broken the link)
    www.
    findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=101798749&ref=acom

    A newspaper recounts the death of George Perrow in 1890, Siver Bow Montana. Found dead with his head in a bucket of water. Someone has added about Anna Maria Goldsworthy and family
     
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  17. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    Rethink:
    Found a marriage in Montana of Frederick Payne to Annie McMannus, mother Anna Goldsworthy. I can't see any more, but perhaps Freddie and Minnie were born Payne like sister Annie. FS says a Frederick Payne died Silver Bow Montana 1907 aged 31. Can't find a Minnie though
     
  18. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Looks like you've sorted a few things Annabel. George Perrow married the widow Annie Payne née Goldsworthy. Emma Veal née Payne. George born Cornwall
    Not a nice way to die though. :(
     
  19. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Not much longevity in this poor family.
     
  20. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Just adding these for clarity, Annabel has indeed done the sorting.
    Groom's Name: George PERROW
    Bride's Name:Anna M.PAYNE
    Date: 29 May 1880
    County of Record: Gilpin
    State: Colorado
    ....................
    1880 Census Day: June 1, 1880
    .............
    Name: George Perrow, Age: 31
    Birth Year: abt 1849 Penryn, England [Pts George Perrow+ Elizabeth Perrow]
    Home in 1880: Nevadaville, Gilpin, Colorado
    George Perrow 31
    Anna M. Perrow 33
    Richard Perrow 13
    Annie Perrow 7
    Freddie Perrow 4
    Minnie Perrow 2
    James Veal 23
    Emma Veal 17
    James Veal 1
    ,............
    Name: James Veale
    Gender: Male
    Spouse: Emma Payne
    Child: Richard Veale
    ............
    Was there another marriage for Anna Maria? a tree [several] suggests Hannah Maria 'Warmington' & includes Minnie & Freddie. Perhaps just similars mixed in.
     
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