My grandfather J H Esp, abandoned at birth.

Discussion in 'Illegitimacy' started by Chrissie Rivers, Nov 7, 2016.

  1. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    There's a Farmcote only 1.4 miles from Claverley.

    I'm convinced it is them in Biddulph in 1901 and I had double checked when I made the first reference to it @ #8. I searched census and the Biddulph one was the only one which fitted with the info - i.e. birth year, occupation, etc.
     
  2. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

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    And so it is. :)
     
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  3. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    Fanny Marria Payne born Jan - March 1863, Chelmarsh
    Fanny Maria Payne married George Head April - June 1889 Bridgenorth

    There is a George Head living in Chetton, Bridgenorth in 1881 and 1871 and 1861. Born 1861 in Morville, Shropshire. Parents Sarah and William, an ag lab.
     
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  4. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    This appears to be George in 1881. RG11; Piece: 2631; Folio: 66; Page: 31

    Name: George Head
    Age: 19
    Estimated birth year: abt 1862
    Father: John Head
    Mother: Martha Head
    Born: Claverley, Shropshire, England
    Civil Parish: Farmcote and Claverly
    County, Shropshire
    Street address: Farmcote

    1871, RG10; Piece: 2744; Folio: 63; Page: 26
     
  5. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    It is interesting that Georges father is called John, and he has a brother named Henry, not uncommon names but maybe JHE was named after George's father and brother.
     
  6. Chrissie Rivers

    Chrissie Rivers Active Member

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    Hi MollyMay. That's another question I'll have to ask my Dad and his sister. There's certainly more to geneology and delving into the past than I had anticipated. I love the way questions are thrown up and areas that have never been considered in are family before and are brought to the forefront by the folk on this website. Thank yoy so much.
    Chrissie
     
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  7. Chrissie Rivers

    Chrissie Rivers Active Member

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    Hi. It sounds as though things might have been kept in the family! My goodness, my brain is going into information overload.
    Chrissie
     
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  8. Chrissie Rivers

    Chrissie Rivers Active Member

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    Hi there. I'm so confused.com. He was a game keeper and I expect there were plenty of spelling mistakes made when the census wa filled in. Ive made quite a few already.
    Chrissie
     
  9. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    Weirdly can't get anything up at all for him on Ancestry, but familysearch have a death July - Sept 1964 in Birmingham district?
     
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  10. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    Freebmd have it
    George Head Sept qtr 1964 Birmingham 6d 70
     
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  11. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    Just a little snippet to add to the picture .....
    Eddowe’s Journal and General Advertiser for Shropshire 25th July 1883
    Assault on a Gamekeeper.— George Head, living at Claverley, who did not appear to the summons, was charged with assaulting Thomas Williams, who lives at Farmcote. Complainant stated that he watched defendant whom he suspected poaching, and on the 13th inst. saw him coming from a field near to a cover. On finding himself watched defendant at once turned on the complainant whom he brutally illtreated. On being served with the summons he admitted the offence, and asked that he might be leniently dealt with. He was fined 5s and 9s. 2d. costs.
    If George Head was a gamekeeper, what was he doing poaching.......
     
  12. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    It never fails to amaze me how different people have such different ideas on the same subject, one of the reasons the forum is so very very helpful - it opens your eyes to things you (and other contributors) had not even thought about:)
     
  13. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    I'm loving all these findings whilst in the land of nod. Can't wait to get the domestic stuff out of the way this morning so I can get stuck in.
    Looking at a problem from different angles gets results so I think we will get this mystery solved sooner or later. If we take a wrong turn then we'll find another way.
     
  14. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Just an aside while I wait my turn in the shower, ;)..When & where did the term " John Henry" begin? [ as in 'sign your...' ] probably America but hey, does not mean others did not think similarly.
     
  15. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    I cant find 'John Henry' on the 1911 census. I have George the gamekeeper and 'Annie' (Fanny) I only have FS to look so maybe they left him off.
    The birth date for his death in 1979 is 21 Sept 1902, was that just a date picked? I guess it was.
    Also, and I'm a bit reluctant to bring it up, but it could be possible that JH was actually Georges son! And a secret. Maybe Fanny had no idea. Maybe she knew.
    Maybe that's why they moved around because everyone knew. Oh dear. My imagination........
     
  16. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    I hadn't thought of that possibility, Sue, but as you mention it.....yes, it is a thought to consider.

    I'm going to try and get an early night (very early for me!, but must sleep when I can) means it will be tomorrow before I can be back on the case - I hope!

    Good luck to all who input, I'd like nothing better than to waken to find more jigsaw pieces have been added :)
     
  17. Chrissie Rivers

    Chrissie Rivers Active Member

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    Hi there. Thank you and everyone so much for all your advice and help. It's been fantastic. What great detectives you all make. I am a member of ancestry.com, but I have been struggling to find some of the answers everyone has come up with. I've printed off all the information so far and this will also be winging its way to my aunty (mother of actress Vicky Michelle from 'allo 'allo- my cousin). It may take a while for information to come back.
    Chrissie
     
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  18. Chrissie Rivers

    Chrissie Rivers Active Member

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    Thank you so much for finding that out. My Dad couldn't remember. :)
     
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  19. Chrissie Rivers

    Chrissie Rivers Active Member

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    Wow! That's interesting. My goodness. If this was a script from a play, the story lines offer all manner of twists and turns. I know my Dad said George was intellectually challenged....
     
  20. Chrissie Rivers

    Chrissie Rivers Active Member

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    That crossed my mind, but to keep it a family secret for so long must have been extremely difficult, especially when JHE got married and had children of his own. As long as I can remember, everyone was intrigued to find out. Dad says unfortunately he never questioned what he had been told about his Dad's birth back then when George and Fanny were alive. He just accepted it. One thing, if George had been the father and Fanny knew, what a story they concocted between them.
     

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