My grandfather J H Esp, abandoned at birth.

Discussion in 'Illegitimacy' started by Chrissie Rivers, Nov 7, 2016.

  1. Chrissie Rivers

    Chrissie Rivers Active Member

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    Hi there. Hope you slept well. I love the additional information that has come to light, especially the assault case. It's interesting that even with a criminal record, especially if George was poaching, how he was able to obtain employment as a gamekeeper to King Edward Vii and the other dignitries. I don't suppose they did background checks back then. I also wondered at first if the man he assaulted has a criminal record or a history of some kind. Was George seeking revenge?
     
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  2. Chrissie Rivers

    Chrissie Rivers Active Member

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    Hi again. I just had to look up Thomas Williams. Around the time, there were a few with criminal records. The one I found most interesting is a Thomas Williams, born about 1858 listed with the names of George Payne and Thomas Payne. He was remanded in custody Nov 1876. :eek:
    Chrissie
     
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  3. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Possibly any family photos might offer a hint or two here-a-bouts-if there are any from back then.
     
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  4. Chrissie Rivers

    Chrissie Rivers Active Member

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    Hi Wendy. I will be spending time with my Dad on 26th Nov. He has a case load of old photo's in the loft. My sister and I will be delving into them! :)
    Chrissie
     
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  5. Chrissie Rivers

    Chrissie Rivers Active Member

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    Hi. Just a quick update. I have emailed family members who have also followed Nellie Sophia Rowe (nee Esp's) background. It may take a while for them to respond. One family last logged on two months ago. Nellie certainy looks like she could be JHE's Mum. When she was married to Thomas Henry Rowe, I noticed that they were living in Wardens, Halfway house, Bridgnorth. I wonder if this halfway house had the same meaning today re: for troubled folk in relation to alcohol addiction and mental health problems etc. I am also finding out more about Thomas Rowe and his family. Also Nellie's and how she chose the name Lucy, her illegitamate daughter at the time.
    Chrissie
     
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  6. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    That's great information Chrissie. Would love to be there when that suitcase is opened.
    Have found an address of 'The Wardens, Halfway House Lane, Eardington, Bridgnorth' and seems to be an old 16th century inn. Perhaps they were living and working there
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2016
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  7. Chrissie Rivers

    Chrissie Rivers Active Member

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    Hi Sue. That's fantastic info. Maybe that is where Nellie met the Dad. I'll also do some more delving.
    Chrissie
     
  8. Chrissie Rivers

    Chrissie Rivers Active Member

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    Hello everyone. I have just received some breakthrough information. The lady I contacted yesterday emailed me and confirmed that Nellie had a baby boy in Manchester 1901 and she called him John. This lady's grandmother was called Lucy Esp. She was born in 1903 in Ivy House, Brockton near Easthorp which was where the family home was. When Nellie married Thomas, he adopted Lucy. JH Esp and Lucy were both born out of wedlock. We still do not know who the father was, however this lady was told that Lucy's was possibly the gardener where Nellie Sophia was in service. I wonder where she worked? George is still looking like a likely candidate.
    Chrissie:D
     
  9. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    8(:-)Wooho! That's wonderful. Now at last John has a mum
     
  10. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    Fantastic! Now to try and find what surname John's birth was registered under. Not an easy task but perhaps process of elimination could lead us to it. Keep up the optimism :).
     
  11. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    You have to feel for poor John Henry. He spent all his life not even knowing when his birthday was let alone who his Mum was and in a few days the combined effort of a few has now given him his Mum and a whole new family as well.
    I do hope we can track down his birthday for him.
     
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  12. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Nellie is in the Maternity home in 1901. She is not listed with a baby as some of the other girls so I assume she was still waiting to have him. Could someone tell me what month that was please. That would give us a close month for the birth to narrow it down even further.
     
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  13. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    The 1901 census was taken 31st March, Sue.
     
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  14. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    So, what do you think? Between April and July?
    Will leave it with others today. Hallway painting now then lunch with friends followed by St Barnabas historical cemetery. :D Hope the snakes aren't around today.
    Oops St Bartholomews Cemetery that would be.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2016
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  15. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    Yes, those are the dates to look at, baby John must have been registered, surely!
     
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  16. Chrissie Rivers

    Chrissie Rivers Active Member

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    Hi everyone. Thank you so much for all your lovely messages. I felt quite emotional reading them. My Dad was very happy. He has a great sence of humour and said, 'What a lot of naughty Esp's about!.' Yesterday, I emailed another three family's who have been tracing Nellie's background. I hope they can shed some further light too. Thank you once again!! As soon as I find JH Esp's phot in my Dad's suitcase after 26th Nov, I will upload it.
    Chrissie
     
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  17. Chrissie Rivers

    Chrissie Rivers Active Member

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    Hi Lizzy. I have been trying to see if I can obtain the records and any baptisms that took place at the Manchester and Salford Mission maternity home, Chorton-on -Medlock, but I seem to be going round in circles. I have looked on the web and just when I think I am getting somewhere, I am redirected to the main geneology sites. As you say, the staff at this establishment would have kept records and as JH esp had a bible on him, is it possible that he may have been baptised in the maternity home?
    Chrissie
     
  18. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    Hi Chrissie, I have searched the Lancs BMD site thinking possibly JHE had been missed off FreeBMD, but he's not there either, at least not under that name. I'm now wondering if he wasn't registered under Esp, though why he wouldn't be I don't know, perhaps he's registered with his natural father's name and maybe, just maybe his mother had been led to believe his father and her would make a home together.............however I cannot find a birth with MMN Esp, it really is a mystery.

    Generally babies born in unmarried mother's homes were registered, and in any case it was illegal by 1901 to not register a birth. If he was baptised in the home I would still expect to find a record. The fact Nellie left a bible with baby JHE suggests she was religious and would have liked him to be baptised.

    Is there any way you can find out how soon after John's birth he was left with the Heads'?

    I'll continue looking for clues.
     
  19. Grizel

    Grizel Well-Known Member

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    This is making fascinating reading! Well done all.

    Have had a look at all the Johns registered in Chorlton in the June Q, none with maiden name Esp that I can see.A handful with no mother's maiden name
    John william Borland
    John Frederick Chadwick
    John William Hughes
    John McDonald
    John Owen
    And could not find John Mangnall on gro at all.
     
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  20. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    I think that he was probably born at Mrs MacAlpine's Maternity Home at 43 Webster Street, Greenheys, Chorlton Upon Medlock, in the parish of St Clement. That was the address Nellie was living at. See post 24 :)
     

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