My grandfather J H Esp, abandoned at birth.

Discussion in 'Illegitimacy' started by Chrissie Rivers, Nov 7, 2016.

  1. Grizel

    Grizel Well-Known Member

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    This doesn't really help - but I think Mrs MacAlpine is Sarah Ann Macalpine nee Ireland, wife of Rev Charles Scott Macalpine. He is a retired baptist minister in Disley in1891. She is visiting an aunt in Cheetham in 1891. When she died in 1892 family asked for any offerings to be made to Mrs Macalpines Homes.
    Whether the Baptists have any records I have no idea. The funeral was at the Meeting House , Higher Cambridge Street Chorlton.
     
  2. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One

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    Who better to catch Poachers or stop people poaching than a Poacher turned Gamekeeper! :D
     
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  3. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    I've searched the GRO index 2nd qrt 1901 for a John Henry born Chorlton but none have MMN Esp, in desperation I also checked Manchester registrations.
     
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  4. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    I think you are spot on Grizel. This report of one of the annual meetings of the Homes (there appear to have been two) appeared in the Manchester Courier and Lancashire General Advertiser 19th October 1901 -
    A meeting of Mrs Macalpine's Homes was held in the Meeting House, Cambridge-street on Tuesday. Alderman McDougall presiding over a large attendance. The report for the year ending August 31st was read, showing that during the twelve months 32 women had been admitted to the Rescue Home. Of these 20 had left through different causes – thus with three who stayed over last year, 15 women are now in the home. With regard to the Maternity Home, no fewer than 58 women had been attended during the year, and of these some 33 were now engaged in various situations, and were apparently doing well. It was also reported that two probationers prepared by Dr. Brown (medical adviser to the Homes) had passed the examination of the London Obstetrical Society, and had obtained its diploma. A number of extracts from letters received were read, expressing the gratitude felt by those who had lived in the home. A regrettable circumstance in connection with the institution was, that during the year liabilities amounting to £85 7s 5d had been incurred. The report was adopted. Several speakers afterwards addressed the meeting and votes of thanks to those who had kindly given their services were passed.
     
  5. Chrissie Rivers

    Chrissie Rivers Active Member

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    Hi there. I found a snippet of information that said records and baptisms for the Manchester Maternity house were destroyed after a bombing raid in WW2. As already mentioned, the home later became known as Lorna Lodge. One member on Ancestry said parish records may have been destroyed but there were also Bishops Transcripts were the parish records were copied to the Bishop. That could be an avenue and it's unknown territory for me. I wonder why Nelly had Lucy at Ivy House, Brockon, near to Easthorpe where the family home is and why she had her baptised but everything surrounding her first born is such a mystery. Thank you once again for all your help and advice and all the other members too.
    Best wishes,
    Chrissie
     
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  6. Chrissie Rivers

    Chrissie Rivers Active Member

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    Hello Grizel. Many thanks for your help and support. I really appreciate it. Everyone has been fantastic. What a great bunch of detectives! New infomation is being unearthed all the time. I feel we are so close to finding all the answers, however if nothing else comes to light, this has been a great experience. All the information obtained has made my elderly Dad's month....and me!
    Kind regards,
    Chrissie
     
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  7. Grizel

    Grizel Well-Known Member

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    Hi Chrissie

    I think - though am not sure- that the Manchester mission home in the High St run by Methodists, is not the same as the Macalpine home in Webster St, as the Macalpines appear to be Baptists. I know very little about Baptists. I believe they carry out adult baptisms but don't know if they would have baptised babies. I also don't know if there would be any administrative records kept. They could equally have been lost in wartime bombings I suppose.
     
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  8. Grizel

    Grizel Well-Known Member

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    I know. He just doesn't seem to be anywhere!
    My earlier thought had been that Nellie's baby had not survived. However as it now seems that John was in fact born in Manchester my guess is that he was deliberately not registered - maybe to hide evidence of him being illegitimate. Someone - Nellie's family? - paid money for her to have the baby well away from home and then arranged for him to be looked after by the Heads.
    Of course she then went on to have Lucy.....
     
  9. Grizel

    Grizel Well-Known Member

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    So far I cannot find the Meeting House in Cambridge St described as anything other than Meeting House - so could be any non conformist denomination - of which there were many at the time! Will keep looking.
     
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  10. Chrissie Rivers

    Chrissie Rivers Active Member

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    Thank you Grizel. I have been trying to find out a little more too. Out of interest, I wondered what type of establishment Ivy House was at Brockton where Lucy was born, but I haven't been able to come up with anything.

    I can't rule out if Nelly had been abused in some way and other possibilities.
    Chrissie
     
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  11. Grizel

    Grizel Well-Known Member

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    Yes, she may well have been away from home in service somewhere and very vulnerable. She may even have run away to the north rather than been sent. Many possibilities.

    Haven't found anything about Ivy House so far though.

    Also I have been pondering on Welby - possibly Willoughby - a name which does occur in the area...
     
  12. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    Occurred to me too, Grizel.

    I've considered Nellie may have been taken advantage of by a member of a household where she perhaps was in service, and if so, the family of the man maybe paid for her to stay in the unmarried mothers' home (referring to John's birth) and later arranged a private adoption.
     
  13. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    Baptists usually only baptise people who can make the decision themselves. i.e not babies. However Nellie could have gone to the C of E parish church for a baptism perhaps?
     
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  14. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Or the home may have arranged the Baptism as a part of being in their care.
     
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  15. Chrissie Rivers

    Chrissie Rivers Active Member

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    Hi Grizel,
    A thought just occured to me. I wonder if the baby listed as being in the Manchester maternity home (at the same time as Nellie) was registered. I'll have to look into this. Also an ancestry member who I contacted a few days ago said that on his wife's side, Nellie was her 4th cousin, second removed and that George Head was 2nd cousin,? removed, however he could find no other connection as to how the Heads knew Nellie.
    Looking at the names of Nellie's other children, I am also trying to work out whether she named them after members of her family.
    I've also been thinking about how Nellie conjured up the name Welby Esp. Willoughby sounds plausible.
    Thank you for all your input.
    Chrissie
     
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  16. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    Hi Chrissie, there were five babies in the home at the time of the 1901 census.
    I've done some checking and here are my findings.

    Agnes Pass was registered Jun qrt 1901 in Chorlton
    George Albert E Davenport registered Mar qrt 1901, Chorlton
    Frederick Percy Ball, registered Jun qrt 1901, Chorlton

    I haven't found a registration in Chorlton for Margaret Massey, there's one in Manchester Jun qrt 1901 for Margaret Edna Massey
    Nothing found for Emma Leigh

    Of the young ladies yet to give birth there's possible registrations for Viles and Pearce Jun qrt 1901, Chorlton.
     
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  17. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    BTW, I had a search about last night for Ivy House, the only reference I found in Brockton was "Ivy House Farm", couldn't find it on the 1901 census :(
     
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  18. Grizel

    Grizel Well-Known Member

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    Can't find a registration for Emma either. Did find a baptism for Margaret Edna at St Luke, miles platting which looked hopeful but parents were John Henry and Sarah Ann.
    And poor George, Frederick and the Viles baby all died in infancy. How sad.
     
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  19. Chrissie Rivers

    Chrissie Rivers Active Member

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    My goodness. That is sad. The affect it must have had on everyone. It makes me appreciate how lucky we are today with the advance in medicine. Thank you for looking this up.
    Chrissie
     
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  20. Chrissie Rivers

    Chrissie Rivers Active Member

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    Thank you so much for looking this up. I also had trouble. I hope the other two people who I have contacted on ancestry respond to my emails. They were people who had Nellie S Rowe in their tree. I'm like a dog with a bone, I can't let go when I start on something like this... I expect patience as they say will pay off. :angel: (closest symbol to a saint)
    Kind regards,
    Chrissie
     
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