My grandfather J H Esp, abandoned at birth.

Discussion in 'Illegitimacy' started by Chrissie Rivers, Nov 7, 2016.

  1. Chrissie Rivers

    Chrissie Rivers Active Member

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    Hi there. Things will be a little quiet over the next few days as I will be seeing my father JH Esp senior this coming weekend. I have sent an email off to the Biddulph & district geneology and local history society over the weekend, so fingers crossed, I'll receive some information back. I also offered a donation to their society. I have not heard anything new back from the other emails I have sent to ancestry members, I expect it's because they do not have all the answers either.

    In my daily musings, I wondered how much Nellie's future husband knew about his wife's background (or not). I have been trying to find out more about Thomas Henry Rowe but I can not come up with anything on the 1901 census on ancestry :headbang:. In the1891 census, when he was 23, he was listed as being with Maria Rowe age 33 who was head of the household. There was also George W Rowe (nephew) listed as being with them. However in 1901, there are so many close matches, it is quiet confusing with regards to the family dynamics as there is also another Thomas Rowe and another Maria listed:confused:.
    Chrissie
     
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  2. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    Chrissie, it seems George W Roe is Maria's son and Maria is Thomas Henry Rowe's sister.

    1901, Stoke St Milborough, RG13; Piece: 2506; Folio: 15; Page: 2
    William Rowe 74, head, Chetton Shropshire
    Maria Rowe 44, dau, Stoke St Milborough
    Gorge W Rowe 12, grandson, Bolton Lancashire
    Violet R G Rowe 5, grand dau, Stoke St Milborough

    The two grandchldren are also with their grandfather in 1911 at Blackford, Stoke St Milburgh[sic] Nr Ludlow, Shropshire
    RG14; Piece: 15885; Schedule Number: 14

    There's a baptism for George W Rowe which is confusing! (not MORE confusion I hear you say :))
    Name: George William Ashton Rowe
    Birth Date: 27 Oct 1888
    Age: 0
    Baptism Date: 15 Jan 1889
    Parish: Halliwell, St Thomas
    Parish as it Appears: Halliwell, St Thomas
    Father's name: George Rowe, shoemaker
    Mother's name: Maria Rowe
    Address: 15, Holland St, Sharples (Sharples is a suburb of Bolton)

    I'll try to find Thomas in 1901, I did look earlier but he didn't jump out at me.
     
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  3. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    From Ancestry's "England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966, 1973-1995"
    Name: Thomas Henry Rowe of Blackford Stoke Street Milborough
    Death Date: 11 Feb 1939
    Death Place: Shropshire, England
    Probate Date: 8 Mar 1939
    Registry: London, England

    Probate to Nellie Sophia Rowe widow and Millicent Nellie Breakwell (wife of Ernest Edward Breakwell). Effects £635 8s 3d

    Marriages Mar 1931, Ludlow, 6a 787
    Ernest E Breakwell to Millicent N Rowe
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2016
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  4. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    I think it a good bet that this is Thomas in 1901, if so it doesn't tell us much. He's indexed as Thomas M Rowe, but the 'M' could be a misread 'H'. Unfortunately there's no birth town, just Shropshire.

    RG13; Piece: 2852; Folio: 153; Page: 31
     
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  5. Chrissie Rivers

    Chrissie Rivers Active Member

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    Thank you so much for the information about Thomas. He did not jump out at me either on the 1901 Census and I thought it was me. I wanted to find out a little more about his background and where he was living at the time Nellie was expecting her first child. Would he have picked up any local gossip I wonder? Unless Nelly disclosed to Thomas the circumstances leading to the births of her first two children, he would surely have learnt something form the villagers before marrying Nellie. It's a pity we can never find out what happens in the years between each Census. A lot can and does happen even in one year!
    Chrissie
     
  6. Chrissie Rivers

    Chrissie Rivers Active Member

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    Hi again. Why is it that another conundrum rears its' head. I logged onto a familysearch website today, and a John Rowe is registered- December 1921, Ludlow, Shropshire. The mother's maiden name is Esp. No other details came up. I looked all around on familysearch and ancestry, but no other details came to light. What are the chances of a father with the surname Rowe, naming a child called John with a mother who's mother's maiden surname was Esp 1921? Ahhh! Lucy's grand daughter, Val, who I emailed, was well aware of all the details that I had provided about her grand mother Nellie and it all matched up. Once again, How come a mother who had the maiden name of Esp, gave birth and had her child registered John Rowe in 1921? What is this all about I wonder?:headbang:
    Chrissie
     
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  7. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    Hi Chrissie,

    I agree it is odd if John Rowe born 1921 is Nellie's son, why would she choose the same name as she gave to her first born son? People did/do strange things, my 2 x grand father moved from the UK to America where he married his 2nd wife, and he gave his first two children born in the US the same first names as his two children still in the UK.

    These are the registered births in ROWE with mother's maiden name ESP

    Births Dec 1911
    ROWE Annie, MMN Esp Bridgnorth 6a 966

    Births Jun 1915
    Rowe Alice M, MMN Esp Ludlow 6a 959

    Births Dec 1921
    Rowe John, MMN Esp Ludlow 6a 928

    Perhaps Val can help you to establish if Nellie had children Annie, Alice and John.
     
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  8. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Mentioned in post #11 the registration of a John Rowe but I thought maybe as there was no chance of reconciling with him she named him , a surprise pregnancy ;) after him.
     
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  9. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Did we decide that he was definitely JOHN HENRY or another name with same initials? I cant find it in here. Sorry. :rolleyes:
    I'm sure Chrissie mentioned that Nellie did have a son John but whether it referred to John Henry or the latter, I'm not sure.
     
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  10. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One

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    I have been following this topic and I'm wondering if it is time for a post outlining what is known for fact in chronological/family order so you all can view it and collect your thoughts.

    Just a thought :)
     
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  11. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Plus...Edith 1917 Ludlow from Family Search
    On FreeBMd as KSP Sept 1917 6a 719
     
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  12. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    #1 Sue,-
    ‪ Nellie # 8, first page, then confirmation of boy child in 1901 named John # 68, page 4.
     
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  13. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    OK thanks
    Sorted ;)
    I need a snooze zzzzzz :rolleyes:
     
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  14. Chrissie Rivers

    Chrissie Rivers Active Member

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  15. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Because the first born John was lost to her,...but still her first born, & John was a forever reminder.
     
  16. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

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    Yes, I was about to say this. My great grandfather named his children by his 'other' woman with the same names as those from his first relationship, the first children still very much alive and not much older.
     
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  17. Chrissie Rivers

    Chrissie Rivers Active Member

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    Hi. What a great time I had with my Dad looking at the old photo's. We had such a laugh. I have uploaded a picture of JHEsp as a young man in 1925. There is a photo of him with Fanny Head which I will also upload in due course.
    I have no other news to add except that I received a lovely reply from Rev. Elaine Hadfield from the Biddulph History Society. She could not find a link between the Heads and Esps and as one member previously suggested on this site, George more than likely worked for the Heath family living at Biddulph Grange as he was living at the Sprink in 1901 which is the Hurst area of Biddulph, near Biddulph Grange.
    Elaine said it may be a case that when Nellie had John her parents/relatives knew someone who knew the Heads and that they were childless and would welcome looking after a child. Elaine said she would pass my email on to one of the society members who has a detailed knowledge of the Grange and the Heath family and if he can make any suggestions, she will pass them onto me. The other great suggestion Elaine came up with was for me to write to her local paper The Cronicle as they frequently print family history requests in their letter pages. Something just might turn up, so I will get emailing.
     

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  18. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    Wouldn't it be just wonderful if someone in the area can help with information. :). I do hope so Chrissie, your family deserves to know the full story.

    A lovely photo of your handsome grandad :)

    The very best of luck to you all, and please keep coming back here with updates.
     
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  19. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    I agree with Lizzy, I really hope there is a 'happy ending' to the Esp saga :) And what a lovely chap JHE looks in the photo.
     
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  20. Grizel

    Grizel Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for the update Chrissie and for the great photo, and glad you had such an enjoyable time with your Dad.
    Would love to see the last pieces of your jigsaw fall into place. Here's hoping! :)
     
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