My Grandma's illegitimate child

Discussion in 'Illegitimacy' started by eric kingsley, Sep 27, 2019.

  1. Sis

    Sis Rootles out resources!

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    MINTER, FRANK JOHN GARRARD
    GRO Reference: 1911 S Quarter in WOOLWICH Volume 01D Page 2311

    MINTER, ELSIE MAY GARRARD
    GRO Reference: 1917 J Quarter in WOOLWICH Volume 01D Page 1794
     
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  2. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    Wendy mentioned Robert's Attestation record (on Anc) and the names are almost illegible but this is what the transcription reads (sic)
    Robert Minter self (head)
    Agnes Sarah Jarrard spouse
    Robert Charles David Minter child
    Agnes Elizabeth Gertrude child
    Henry George Minter child
    Charles Winifred Minter child
    Frank John Minter child
    Gloyd May Winter child

    No Albert Edward unless he is transcribed as Charles Winifred:rolleyes:
     
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  3. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    upload_2019-9-28_8-38-20.png
     
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  4. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    upload_2019-9-28_8-43-26.png
     
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  5. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    The attestation date was ? Feb 1918, so Albert was alive then
     
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  6. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Yep, he died in 1923 - strange he wasn't on the attestation paper.
     
  7. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    The question is why did Agnes enter 5 live births and 5 children living, on the 1911 census?
    upload_2019-9-28_8-48-21.png

    We know she was not married for 10 years (that covers Robert Charles being born prior to her marriage - Sept qtr 1903 and marriage Dec qtr), but has the 4 children listed with the correct ages
    Did she include the child she was carrying (Frank born Sept qtr 1911)?
     
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  8. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    If he isn't Charles Winifred (I suspect it is Albert, he is in the right chronological order, I cannot make out any of the children's names they are so feint) where is he and who is Charles?
     
  9. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    No, they were married in November 1902, and Robert Charles was born September 1903, so well withing the marriage.

    They married on 26th November 1902 and the census was taken on 2nd April 1911. The duration between these dates is 8 years, 4 months, 7 days. So the 10 years is a bit out.
     
  10. eric kingsley

    eric kingsley Well-Known Member

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    OK. I'm amazed. How did you do that? I know that marriage certificates can be purchased from the GRO. Did you pay for that info? If so, I am extremely grateful.
     
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  11. Sis

    Sis Rootles out resources!

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    We like to share.;)
     
  12. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    No, it is on one of the pay per view sites that I subscribe to. You didn't seem to have it so I shared it with you.

    As Sis said
     
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  13. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    Thought I was doing so well this morning:oops:
     
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  14. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    You may be able to access Ancestry at your local library - they have a lot of London records;)

    Edit - Ancestry do - not the library
     
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  15. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    I had real trouble trying to work out how long they were married, I resorted to:
    Code:
    https://www.timeanddate.com/date/durationresult.html?d1=26&m1=11&y1=1902&d2=02&m2=04&y2=1911
     
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  16. eric kingsley

    eric kingsley Well-Known Member

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    I remember this Aunty. I only met her a few of times. They were a bit of an exuberant family it seemed to me, she had a very loud laugh and they liked to have a sing-song. I recall them singing the chorus from Gus Elen's song "Down the Road". Memories eh?
     
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  17. eric kingsley

    eric kingsley Well-Known Member

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    Ahh right. I think I can see what you mean. Agnes Sarah Minter is listed as Head of the family on the 1911 census and her husband isn't listed at all. They were still married as far as I can see but living at different addresses because of his job. Robert appears in the 1911 census as a "servant" (barman) at the licensed premises of William Edmund Reed "The Yorkshire Grey" 99 Bermondsey Street. It's still there, renamed. Robert gives his status as single but I believe this was a job requirement, you couldn't be married. My father said they were together until Agnes's death.
     
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  18. eric kingsley

    eric kingsley Well-Known Member

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    I believe he died from diphtheria. Unheard of now. Elsie May also contracted it but survived I was told.
     
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  19. eric kingsley

    eric kingsley Well-Known Member

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    So to locate Agnes Sarah Minter's illegitimate child (if he/she existed) I will do the following - 1) get membership of Ancestry.co.uk as well as Findmypast and see if it has any additional info 2) interrogate births on the GRO database looking for individuals born with the surname Garrard (her maiden name) during her child bearing years, say from age 14 (1888) till her marriage to Robert in 1902 in two locations, Ipswich where she was born and Greenwich/Woolwich. Then for these individuals I check mother's maiden name to see if it is also Garrard. Where this isn't available there's no option but to buy the .pdf of the birth certificates and look. There seems to be a bit of a gap in her records from birth (1874) to 1901 where you guys found her as "Garrett". Does this sound like a logical plan?
     
  20. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Are these people recognisable?


    Agnes Minter

    England and Wales, National Index of Wills and Administrations, 1858-1957


    Name: Agnes Minter
    Event Type: Probate
    Event Date: 19 Apr 1915
    Event Place: Surrey, England, United Kingdom
    Event Place (Original): Surrey, United Kingdom
    Beneficiary's Name: Robert Anderson John Minter
    Second Beneficiary's Name: Isabel Ridgway Stedman
    Additional Name:
    Walter Fowler

    It seems I forgot again to press 'post reply' not sure what has happened mean-time
     
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