My Grandma's illegitimate child

Discussion in 'Illegitimacy' started by eric kingsley, Sep 27, 2019.

  1. eric kingsley

    eric kingsley Well-Known Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    185
    Likes Received:
    291
    Location:
    London
    It could be this person. The 1972 death reg. gives DoB 4th Sept 1896 which would be S Quarter but this birth reg. records D Quarter.

    GARRARD, WILLIAM GEORGE EDWARD POLLARD
    GRO Reference: 1896 D Quarter in IPSWICH Volume 04A Page 915
     
  2. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

    Offline
    Messages:
    4,735
    Likes Received:
    12,276
    Location:
    Middlesex
    You have 6 weeks to register a birth, so an Oct to Dec registration is perfectly possible.
     
    Bay Horse and Daft Bat like this.
  3. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    5,497
    Likes Received:
    21,337
    Location:
    Northamptonshire, England.
    A birth had (and still has) to be registered within 42 days. Being born on 4th September would allow up to 16th October for it to be registered. October 1st to 16th falls into the December quarter. ;)

    Edited to add: just seen @MollyMay reply. :rolleyes:
     
    MollyMay and Bay Horse like this.
  4. eric kingsley

    eric kingsley Well-Known Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    185
    Likes Received:
    291
    Location:
    London
    Thanks for that. Probably him then!
     
    Daft Bat likes this.
  5. Grizel

    Grizel Well-Known Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    616
    Likes Received:
    1,101
    Location:
    UK
    There's also a William G E Garrard b 1896 in 1939 in Daventry who could be the same chap. With a Sarah E Garrard. And a poss marriage in 1921 William G E Garrard and Sarah E Goode.
     
  6. eric kingsley

    eric kingsley Well-Known Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    185
    Likes Received:
    291
    Location:
    London
    I meant to ask you, how do you search the GRO for marriages? I can only see searches available for Birth and Death. Thanks for your help.
     
  7. eric kingsley

    eric kingsley Well-Known Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    185
    Likes Received:
    291
    Location:
    London
    As others have said, September births can be registered in the next month so this could well be
    GARRARD, WILLIAM GEORGE EDWARD POLLARD
    GRO Reference: 1896 D Quarter in IPSWICH Volume 04A Page 915
     
  8. eric kingsley

    eric kingsley Well-Known Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    185
    Likes Received:
    291
    Location:
    London
    That is indeed the case. Lucy Jacob is named as Frederick Garrard's spouse on his British Army WWI Pension Records 1914-1920 by Ancestry.co.uk
     
    Grizel likes this.
  9. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

    Offline
    Messages:
    4,735
    Likes Received:
    12,276
    Location:
    Middlesex
    Sadly you cannot, you have to use FreeBMD or a pay to use site
     
  10. eric kingsley

    eric kingsley Well-Known Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    185
    Likes Received:
    291
    Location:
    London
    Sorry, I'm being dense. What did you mean by the reference "according to the GRO" in this post #122
     
  11. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

    Offline
    Messages:
    4,735
    Likes Received:
    12,276
    Location:
    Middlesex
    No you are are not - the GRO produce an index for marriages, just like births and deaths. So if you go to FreeBMD and put in the names that you have it will give the place and the ref no (ie volume and page number). for all marriages with those names, you can narrow the number of possibles if you have an idea of when and where the marriage took place.
     
    Bay Horse and Chimp like this.
  12. eric kingsley

    eric kingsley Well-Known Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    185
    Likes Received:
    291
    Location:
    London
    Thanks. Understood.
     
    MollyMay likes this.
  13. eric kingsley

    eric kingsley Well-Known Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    185
    Likes Received:
    291
    Location:
    London
    Here's a wild idea. It looks likely that when Agnes Sarah's parents moved the family to London in 1884/5 Catherine, her big sister and their first-born stayed in Ipswich, possibly with William Edward (the 2nd born). Neither of their names appear on the 1891 census that the family completed in Deptford.

    Catherine married William Potter in Ipswich in 1891. Catherine's first child with William was also called William and was born in the J Quarter of 1893 at which time Agnes Sarah would have been 19. Agnes Sarah is recorded on the 1891 census (aged 17) working as a servant in London in the household of John W Dear in Deptford.

    What if Catherine's first child was actually Agnes Sarah's child, resulting from a rape in London? In other words William Potter was the illegitimate child and Catherine, out of sisterly feeling, Christian charity etc, simply registered him as her own child with William. This would be an act of extraordinary generosity. They'd have to NOT have a child for at least 9 months otherwise things might seem odd. Contraceptive technology was a bit primitive, but condoms and pessaries existed I believe. Mr Potter would also be agreeing to become a foster parent for his nephew which is not something he bargained for, I imagine.

    Agnes Sarah perhaps would have agreed to take back responsibility for William once she married.

    How could I eliminate this possibility?
     
  14. Grizel

    Grizel Well-Known Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    616
    Likes Received:
    1,101
    Location:
    UK
    Eric, I am sorry but sadly William George Edward Potter died in WW1 (from CWGC site). He was a lance corporal in the East Yorkshire Regiment and died on 27/10/1914. Only son of William and Catherine Gertrude Mary Potter, 9 Priory Street, Ipswich.
     
  15. eric kingsley

    eric kingsley Well-Known Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    185
    Likes Received:
    291
    Location:
    London
    Thanks for that. It was a wild idea!
     
    Bay Horse likes this.
  16. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

    Offline
    Messages:
    1,842
    Likes Received:
    11,772
    Location:
    North-west England
    Wild ideas often end up hitting the nail on the head, though.
     
    Grizel, Chimp and AnnB like this.
  17. eric kingsley

    eric kingsley Well-Known Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    185
    Likes Received:
    291
    Location:
    London
    I'd say this makes it very likely that the William "the nephew" in the 1911 census at 24 Harden St, Woolwich is the son of William Ephraim Garrard & Amy Potter, but that the "nephew" relationship remains obscure and not to be taken literally. I can't see any record of Amy & William's son dying before 1911. I think that particular mystery is probably solved.

    It could be that Agnes Sarah didn't register the birth of her illegitimate son at all and that he took matters into his own hands after he was gassed and hospitalised and met his future wife "Sylvia" the nurse. At this point he might have required a birth certificate to get married and could have called upon the Army to assist him. He could have chosen any surname at all and emerged post-1918 with a new identity.
     
  18. eric kingsley

    eric kingsley Well-Known Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    185
    Likes Received:
    291
    Location:
    London
    I tried a systematic approach, looking in Findmypast (FMP) for births with the surname Garrard and the 1st or 2nd name William from 1885 when Agnes Sarah would have been 11 to 1902 when she married aged 28. There weren't as many as I thought there would be. For the first few years I ignored births in places a long way from either London or Ipswich. Later when she was older I included distant places since she might have been able to get there.

    Next I ran all the remaining 1st name/surnames and years of birth through the GRO births database to check for MMN. The GRO seems to return a MMN much more often than FMP. I looked for anomalies and cases where the MMN was Garrard or was blank.

    The following instances seemed strange.
    1) William Thomas Garrard YoB 1889 Bosmere, Suffolk is returned by FMP but NOT by the GRO. The GRO can find a William Thomas Garrard being born in the next year (1890) in a different place, Tendring and gives the MMN "Burch".

    2) FMP finds someone called Ethel William Garrard (!), YoB 1890, Epsom, Surrey but the GRO cannot find any such person. The GRO finds someone called Ethel Eleanor Mary Garrard YoB 1890, Epsom, Surrey MMN "Smith". I assume this is just a glitch in FMP.

    3) In 1893 FMP finds someone called William Garth B Garrard born in Epsom, Surrey with MMN also Garrard. This is confirmed by the GRO.

    4) In 1896 we have these 2 births which are slightly mysterious and we have discussed before. I have previously ordered birth certs that should be here in a few days.
    Garrard William Edward 1896 — 1896 England & Wales Births 1837-2006 Ipswich, Suffolk, England POTTER
    Garrard William George E 1896 — 1896 England & Wales Births 1837-2006 Ipswich, Suffolk, England POLLARD

    5) In 1897 GRO confirms the birth of William Henry T Garrard in Haslingden, Lancashire and gives MMN as blank. Could Agnes Sarah have got to Lancashire to have a child? I suppose it's possible.

    6) In 1901 GRO confirms these two births. The first is William Arthur Garrard, Hoxne, S Quarter, Hoxne, MMN "Cracknell" (Reference Volume 04A Page 991) and the second is Frederick William Garrard, Ipswich, Suffolk, S Quarter, MMN "Cracknell" (Reference Volume 04A Page 1025). These births are in the same Quarter to mothers with the same surname and fathers with the same surname but in different places. Hoxne is 20 miles from Ipswich. The Page numbers are also different making twins less likely. Puzzling.

    Any comments or suggestions would be much appreciated.
     
  19. Jellylegs

    Jellylegs Well-Known Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    1,183
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Location:
    Maidstone, Kent
    William Thomas GARRARD (FMP) is listed by the GRO as William Thomas GARROD - mother's maiden name LAY.

    William Henry Taylor GARRARD born 1897 in Haslingden, died in 1898.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2019
  20. eric kingsley

    eric kingsley Well-Known Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    185
    Likes Received:
    291
    Location:
    London
    Thanks for those clarifications. Do you think "William Garth B Garrard born in Epsom, Surrey with MMN also Garrard" is worth further investigation?
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice