My head hurts, William warner family problem.

Discussion in 'Essex' started by Findem, Jul 1, 2022.

  1. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One

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    I realise what I am asking is a difficult thing but I would appreciate any thoughts, what I have found is I think a William Warner married to two wives, possibly three.

    There are four ladies, two Sarahs and one Elizabeth (possibly 2) all married to a William Warner and at some time in Loughton Essex.
    William Warner married Elizabeth Williams 27 May 1701 at Loughton.
    William Warner married Sarah ? at ? pre 1701.
    William Warner married Sarah Reed 20 Dec 1711 at Loughton.

    The children all baptised at Loughton.
    1) Elizabeth 28 Aug 1701, buried 12 May 1702 at Loughton, an infant, parent names not given.
    2) Mary 8 Aug 1701.
    3) William 11 Jun 1705. His mother is Elizabeth.
    4) John 22 Jul 1706.
    5) William 21 Jan 1709.
    6) Thomas 2 Feb 1712.
    7) William 22 Feb 1713.
    8) Robert 8 Jun 1715.
    9) William 9 Sep 1717.
    10) Sarah 17 Feb 1718.
    The mother of all the children except William 1705 is Sarah.
    A Sarah Warner, spouse of William Warner, was buried 12 May 1710 at Loughton, which proves there were two Sarah Warners both wives of a William Warner in Loughton.

    Notes.
    I think it is safe to consider that children 6 to 10 are children of William Warner and Sarah Reed.
    Child 3, William 1705, is possibly the son of William Warner and Elizabeth Williams but why no other children born or baptised between 27 May 1701 and William 1705?
    Children 1, 2, 4 and 5 are the children of William Warner and Sarah but Sarah who?

    Three William Warners buried at Loughton all are stated to be children of William and Sarah Warner.
    26 Jan 1709, 14 Feb 1714 and 4 Mar 1717 presumably I would think they are Williams Numbers 5, 7 and 9, leaving William # 3 in limbo, not really inportant.

    Unfortunately my ancestor is child # 4, John, born 17 Jul 1706 and baptised 22 Jul 1706 at Loughton the son of William and Sarah Warner, I have a note “Sarah nee Gull?” but I’ll be darned if I can find where I got Sarah Gull from, certainly unsuccessful in finding a marriage for a Sarah Gull and I have been unable to find a William Warner to a Sarah marriage pre 1710 to fit, so John's mother Sarah remains a mystery.

    It has crossed my mind that William and Elizabeth (nee Williams) Warner could be a different couple to the William and Sarahs.

    Any thought, or scenarios would be most welcome, I’m all thunk out, the more I think about it the more tangled it becomes, my brain hurts!!!
     
  2. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One

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    I have found the marriage of William Warner to Sarah Gull, they married 29 Sep 1690 at Albury Hertfordshire, the result came up in an all counties search on Ancestry, I thought I had already carried out that search but obviously not, there was just the bare essentials in the marriage details.

    Could only find two children of William Warner baptised in Hertfordshire.
    James Warner baptised 6 Jun 1693 Little Hadham.
    William Warner baptised 9 Jan 1694 Albury.
    The mother's name was not given.

    There might be other children of that William and Sarah Warner baptised at some place not covered by Ancestry between William 1694 at Albury Hertfordshire and Elisabeth 1701 at Loughton Essex.

    Going to check Public Trees on Ancestry to see if I got the Sarah Gull name there.
     
  3. janetbooth

    janetbooth Top Dog Stalwart

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    There aren't any more details on the parish register image of the marriage of William WARNER & Sarah GULL, which is available to view on FMP, Derek. Baptism at Albury on 15 December 1697 for a John son of Will WARNER and the one you already have of a son William baptised 9 January 1693/94. Burial at Albury for John son of Will WARNER on 19 September 1702. Then, as far as I can see, no further records at Albury for William & Sarah. The earliest baptism I can see at Loughton for children of William & Sarah WARNER is that of Mary on 8 March 1702/03 who died in 1703. Sarah wife of William WARNER was buried at Loughton on 12 May 1711, so this could well tie in with the remarriage of William to Sarah REED in December 1711. Burial at Loughton on 26 January 1710/11 of William son of William & Sarah WARNER and another one on 4 March 1718/19 of William son of William & Sarah WARNER. FMP shows a marriage at Loughton on 27 May 1700 of William WARNER to Elizabeth WILLIAMSON.

    Hope this helps a bit!

    Janet
     
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  4. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One

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    Oh Janet what have you done. :eek: :)

    That burial of John Warner 19 Sep 1702 at Albury plays havoc with my previously held theory that the Hertfordshire William and Sarah Warner were the same couple as the William and Sarah Warner at Loughton, Essex. I have a copy of the baptism register image for Elizabeth Warner daughter of William and Sarah and it finitely states she was baptised 28 Aug 1701 at Loughton.

    It doesn't seem feasible for William and Sarah Warner to travel from Loughton Essex to Albury Hertfordshire, a trip of 26 miles (42 Kms), to bury their son John.

    Not sure how I missed that baptism of John Warner son of William and Sarah 15 Dec 1697 at Albury Herts, I found it easily this time!

    I could not find John's burial on Ancestry no matter what I tried, I even tried a search on just the first name John plus 19 Sep 1701 to 1703 Hertfordshire.

    I'm reluctant to let the Hertfordshire William and Sarah Warner nee Gull go so some serious thinking is required, not really sure where to start, I have tried several times to find another marriage of a William Warner to a Sarah pre 1701 but it's like looking for a needle in a haystack.

    On a serious note thanks for all that info Janet, it is much appreciated.
     
  5. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One

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    Mentioned just out of interest.

    At the same time William and Sarah Warner were baptising children in Albury & Little Hadham, Herts, a John and Robert Warner were also baptising their children in nearby Hunsdon, Herts, both John and Robert had a trade, John a "Plow wright" and Robert a Wheelwright. All three are siblings possibly. It could be that William also had a trade which would give him the opportunity to move from one county to another, if he did! Just a thought.
     
  6. janetbooth

    janetbooth Top Dog Stalwart

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    Sorry about the headache Derek and the fact I seem to have made it worse!! It looks as if the Albury & Hunsdon WARNERs may well have originated in Bishop's Stortford looking at the parish registers available on FMP but I must admit I have had no luck finding another marriage of a William WARNER to a Sarah prior to 1701 other than that to Sarah GULL. I have checked the burial record for son John again and it definitely states 19 September 1702

    Janet
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2022
  7. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One

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    Thanks for looking for that marriage Janet, at least I have the comfort of knowing that it isn't just me who can't find a William Warner to a Sarah marriage prior to the one to Sarah Gull.

    I did notice the Bishops Stortford Warners, something else I noticed was the names Robert and Katherine Warner used for their children were also used by William and Sarah Warner. Robert and Katherine's children are, Elizabeth (x2), Mary, John (x2) and Sarah, although of course those names are pretty common to a lot of families. I didn't find a son named William for Robert and Katherine, not that any of this seems relevant now.

    I shall just have to label John's parents as William Warner and Sarah unknown, yet another genealogical mystery! :headbang: :)
     
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