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My latest conundrum!

Discussion in 'Cheshire' started by thalauafu, Apr 4, 2017.

  1. thalauafu

    thalauafu Well-Known Member

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    Hi Everyone, Here I am back again, and as usual, with another conundrum that I need one of TOP DOG’s super sleuths to help me with please!

    A cousin (albeit a distant one) has asked me for help to find her grandfather, whom she believes was named William Fitzpatrick. Her grandmother who was related to me, was born Ethel May Winkle in 1895.

    Neither my cousin nor I can find a marriage for her grandparents anywhere. My cousins father, who was named William Joseph Stelfox Fitzpatrick when his birth was registered in the 1st qtr of 1915 in Northwich, Cheshire, was actually born in 1914. This latter, according to my cousin who apparently has a copy of his birth certificate. She says that on this it states that his father’s name was William Fitzpatrick.

    When William Joseph Stelfox Fitzpatrick was married in the Sep qtr. 1937, the marriage appears to have been also registered under the name of Winkle, his mother’s maiden name! His father is stated to be William Fitzpatrick, a theatre actor.

    Marriages Sep 1937

    Fitzpatrick
    William J S
    Rush
    Liverpool S.
    8b
    524

    Marriages Sep 1937

    Winkle
    William J S
    Rush
    Liverpool S.
    8b
    524

    Here is a cut and paste (as received) from my cousins letter to me….

    My Nan gave him the name of Fitzpatrick but she remained a Winkle,
    But took on the name Lawson later on
    From a captain on the ships and she worked ad a children's nanny on the ships. So Dad was left with the family in Northwich



    By this time I think you will realise why I am confused and muddle headed! So, who on earth really WAS the father of William Joseph Stelfox Fitzpatrick????

    Cousin also said (cut and pasted as written)

    My Grandmother Ethel May was boarding at her aunt and uncles place in Northwich,they ran a bourding house for actors ect and she had my Father when she was nineteen ,but he must of moved on, and she brought him up with help from family, as her mum was in Lancaster prison,(still trying to find out why)

    So, which of you wonderful detectives on this forum can find the father of William Joseph Stelfox Fitzpatrick

    (surely the name Stelfox must be some sort of clue too??)….William Fitzpatrick

    And, just for good measure….the name of any theatres in Northwich which might be able to throw a light on William Fitzpatrick

    Oh yes, and what was Ethel May’s mother (also my blood relative), Mary Winkle nee Oakes in Lancaster Goal for??

    I hope this makes some sense, but if not, please don't blame me....my head is spinning!

    Cheers, Diana
     
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  2. janetbooth

    janetbooth Top Dog Stalwart

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    I can find one article in The Stage dated 14 August 1919 relating to a William FITZPATRICK but he appears to be in America and something to do with Equity and part of "The White Rats". Nothing that I can find in the vicinity of Northwich.

    Janet
     
  3. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    His birth is registered under William J S WINKLE March qtr 1915 Northwich. 8a 477 mmn WINGLE, obviously supposed to be Winkle.
     
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  4. Half Hour

    Half Hour Well-Known Member

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    When Ethel May died her probate reads Ethel May Winkle ..died Aug. 4 1965 so it sounds like she never married. Her 1626 pounds were left to a Wilfred Winkle, pottery worker. He sounds like he may be a brother... born 1905
    .
     
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  5. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    The only Wilfred Winkle was born Burslem Staffordshire in 1905 and appears on the 1911 age 5 registered Wolstanton. An Ethel Winkle age 25 also appears on the 1911 born Burslem Staffordshire. Maybe the wrong Ethel Winkle?
     
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  6. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Sorry Sue but I think she is more likely the Ethel Winkle who died aged 54 NE Cheshire in 1950 10a 459. Still doesn't change the fact that she never did marry.
     
  7. thalauafu

    thalauafu Well-Known Member

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    Hi Sue, Many thanks for this information! Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner but I have not been on GS at all since that posting! Really appreciate your help though!
     
  8. wallflower

    wallflower New Member

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  9. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    I wonder if any of this fits Diana:

    Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
    WINKLE, ETHEL MAY x OAKES
    GRO Reference: 1895 S Quarter in NORTHWICH Volume 08A Page 264
    ..............
    Births Dec 1876
    OAKS Mary Alice Ashton 8d 473
    ....
    OAKS, MARY ALICE x FITZPATRICK Order
    GRO Reference: 1876 D Quarter in ASHTON UNDER LYNE Volume 08D Page 473 [does Fitzpatrick mean anything here?] probably not as she appears in other areas than your Mary. :(
    ........
    OAKES, MARY x HOPE ?
    GRO Reference: 1875 S Quarter in NORTHWICH Volume 08A Page 263
    .....
    Marriages Mar 1872 ?
    Aspey Annie Northwich 8a 370
    Hough Ann Northwich 8a 370
    Hough Richard Northwich 8a 370
    OAKES John Northwich 8a 370
    ..................
    Marriages Jun 1866
    LEE Ann Sheffield 9c 477
    Oaks John Sheffield 9c 477
    Oates John Sheffield 9c 477
    .........
    1891 England Census
    Mary Oakes
    Age: 16,-b.1875
    Relationship: Daughter
    Father: John Oakes
    Mother: Ann Oakes
    Birth Place: Wharton; Winsford, Cheshire, England
    Civil Parish: Middlewich
    Ecclesiastical parish: St Michael and Middlewich All Angels
    Residence Place: Middlewich, Middlewich, Cheshire, England
    John Oakes 39
    Ann Oakes 43
    William Oakes 18
    Mary Oakes 16
    Harry Oakes 14
    Eliza Oakes 11
    Fred Oakes 9
    John Oakes 7
    Sarah Oakes 5
    Frank Oakes 2
    Source Citation
    The National Archives of the UK (TNA); Kew, Surrey, England; Census Returns of England and Wales, 1891; Class: RG12; Piece: 2842; Folio: 14; Page: 23;
    .................
    Marriages Sep 1894
    Oakes Mary Northwich 8a-441
    Winkle William Joseph Northwich 8a-441
    .....
    1901
    Name: Maria Winkle
    Age: 23
    Estimated birth year: abt 1878
    Relation to Head: Wife
    Spouse: William J Winkle
    Birth Place: Northwich, Cheshire, England
    William J. Winkle 27-Hanley Staffs.
    Maria Winkle 23 - Northwich
    Ethel M Winkle 6 -""
    Eleanor J Winkle 2 -""
    William V Winkle 1 -""
    George Sinclair 32
    Douglas Holmes 30
    Mary L Hall 22
    Source Citation
    Class: RG13; Piece: 3341; Folio: 144; Page: 3
    ...........................
    No luck as yet with reason for Mary being in prison, perhaps she was careless in her handling of her job as Cafe manageress.
    1911
    Mary Winkle, Prisoner
    Occupation Manageress - Cafe
    Age 36,.b.1875- Cheshire Winsford
    Marriage year 1895
    Years married 16
    Address Lancaster
    Archive reference RG14
    Registration district Lancaster
    Census reference RG14PN25555 RD479 SD3 ED34 SN9999
    7 children born-one had died.
    .................
     

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