My other brick....

Discussion in 'Warwickshire' started by Steve, Jul 14, 2014.

  1. Steve

    Steve Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    Birmingham, England
    Where'd my maths go wrong ? I thought it'd be 11 Feb

    213 days - 12 in Sept, 31 Aug, 31 Jul, 30 Jun, 31 May, 30 Apr, 31 Mar the 17 of Feb neither 1882 or 1914 are leap years so 17 off 28 = 11 Feb 1882.
    Have I missed something?
     
  2. Steve

    Steve Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    Birmingham, England
    Flook. Have you got Ancestry an FMP subsciptions?

    I recently gone back to FMP as they did a £1 offer for a months access. Ive been searching Charles Bailey on there and come across his service record again. Looking at it the one on FMP is in places slightly better condition. in particular if memory serves the fourth page on Ancestry, not sure. It is burnt top and left side the most. Theres a stamp on the page "Transferred to class Z demob" etc.
    If you look at the top left you can just make out the word Birmingham and the date 15.9.14 twice.
    The FMP same record has more above that. You can read 33 years 213 / 365.

    Gonna have to look through them all to compare, when I get back from work later.

    That 33, 213 would make it 11 Feb 1881 not 1882 ?
     
  3. Flook

    Flook A True Gentleman. Rest in Peace.

    Offline
    Messages:
    1,735
    Likes Received:
    3,255
    Location:
    Nottingham U.K.
    The very first time I did the sum I got February 1881 as well which fits terrifically well with the John Baily Smith in the 1881 Moland Street census.. I think after having looked at the Ancestry papers I was rather tired when I tried again. I'll have a look at the FMP version as well.
     
  4. Flook

    Flook A True Gentleman. Rest in Peace.

    Offline
    Messages:
    1,735
    Likes Received:
    3,255
    Location:
    Nottingham U.K.
    The "Protection Certificate and Certificate of Identity" clearly gives the year of birth as 1881; and that agrees with his date of birth age implied in the Pension document i.e. 38 years old on 5 March 1919.
     
  5. Flook

    Flook A True Gentleman. Rest in Peace.

    Offline
    Messages:
    1,735
    Likes Received:
    3,255
    Location:
    Nottingham U.K.

    Looking at the very last document on FMP it gives the age as 32 years 213 days which makes it 11 February 1882. From all the evidence I think that's been written incorrectly and it should be 33 years.


    For what it’s worth I think that the attestation front page dated 12 September 1914 is a later copy of the one dated 18 September 1914. Maybe the original (18/9/14) was mislaid and a copy was made out to cover the omission. It’s certain that the document dated 12/9/14 is incomplete as e.g. there is no “Signature of the Justice” at the bottom of the page. The 18/9/14 document also looks more authentic as it contains the phrase about leaving one third of his pension to his wife and children.

    That’s as far as I can get.

    I can only suggest again that you get the death certificate of William Smith (post 16 above) and/or follow up Huncamunca’s suggestions in post 13.
     
  6. Steve

    Steve Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    Birmingham, England
    Many thx for looking at this Flook.

    Ill read through them all again see what best to do. Perhaps hope to find a similar occupation on William's Death cert might be a start
     
  7. Flook

    Flook A True Gentleman. Rest in Peace.

    Offline
    Messages:
    1,735
    Likes Received:
    3,255
    Location:
    Nottingham U.K.
    Hold on!!

    I've just checked the National Probate Calendar on Ancestry and there's an Administration for William Smith late of 107 Park Road Aston who died 23 December 1886. Granted 4 January 1887 to Emma Smith same address, widow.

    Bother :(!!
     
    Huncamunca and Chimp like this.
  8. Steve

    Steve Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    Birmingham, England
    Doh !!
     
    Chimp likes this.
  9. Flook

    Flook A True Gentleman. Rest in Peace.

    Offline
    Messages:
    1,735
    Likes Received:
    3,255
    Location:
    Nottingham U.K.
    It's just struck me that his date of birth will be on his 1939 Register Card if he was still alive. It costs a lot but could save you a lot of time & trouble. You could apply for one now or hang around for a year or two and wait for FMP to put them on their database. See>

    http://www.hscic.gov.uk/register-service

    http://blog.
    findmypast.co.uk/2014/new-project-to-release-the-1939-register-for-the-first-time-online/
     
  10. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

    Offline
    Messages:
    6,529
    Likes Received:
    16,754
    Location:
    South Australia
    I was trying to wish Tony V. a Happy Birthday. why am I here?
     
    mugwortismy cat likes this.
  11. Doug

    Doug Administrator. The Main Man. Staff Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    1,221
    Likes Received:
    3,795
    Location:
    Hoppers Crossing, Victoria, Australia
    No idea Wendy. :)
     
  12. Steve

    Steve Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    Birmingham, England
    What a mine of info you are. Looking at the application form, I don't think I know enough to order one so may have to wait till its on FMP. I only have Charles name and possibly an address around 1915/1919, have to check the service record. Thats not enough according to the form. I will need to confirm Charles and Eliza's deaths so I'll start by finding their death certs. I think Eliza may have died before registration. I think 1923, theres one for Kings Norton but I haven't purchased it yet. So I may get that and look for Charles, I think around 1948 is one I found. Ill look into these next then I think
     
  13. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

    Offline
    Messages:
    2,263
    Likes Received:
    4,769
    Location:
    Oxfordshire, UK
    You've been beavering away, Flook! Good work :) Also well done for spotting that National Probate Calendar entry and so stopping Steve wasting £9.25 on the wrong certificate.

    I have been trying to trace some of Betsey's other children in the hope that that might be a roundabout route to discovering more about Charles. Ada is still eluding me but I think this is probably William in 1911:

    32 Pritchett Street, Birmingham St George
    (RG 14/18090, ED 30, schedule no. 98)

    William BAILEY, 35, silver finisher, born King Edwards Road Birmingham, with wife 'Caraline' 34, born Aldershot.

    They say they've been married 16 years and had 11 children, two of whom have died. Like many others they were confused by the form and included the name of the dead children as well as the living: William H. 15, Ada 13, Louie 11, Charles 10, Lily 9, Ernest 8, Lizzie 7, Alice 5, Harry 4 (crossed out, 'dead' added), Thomas 2 and Violet 1 (crossed out, 'dead' added).

    They also helpfully give names of the streets where each child was born (all in Birmingham - I haven't copied full details).

    Why do I think this is the right man? Well, ten years earlier, in 1901, this surely must be the same family, but enumerated as SMITH:

    10 Lawley Street, Aston (RG 13/2867, f.85, p.28)

    William SMITH, 25, polisher, born Birmingham, with wife Caroline, 23, born Berks (sic) Aldershot, and children William 5, Ada 3, Louie 2 and Charles 9 months, all born Birmingham.

    So far I have failed to find a suitable marriage for William & Caroline. :( There are I think baptisms for a couple of their children (Ernest and Lizzie/Elizabeth) on Ancestry, under the name Bailey, but the others are still hiding.
     
    Ma-dotcom and Flook like this.
  14. Steve

    Steve Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    Birmingham, England
    And Ive heard that is about to go up as they aren't making enough lol. Its bout time the GRO got together with Ancestry or FMP to get all the certs digitised and available online. Come on GRO get into the 21st century
     
  15. Blackmogs

    Blackmogs Moderator. General Dogs(cats)body. Staff Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    1,547
    Likes Received:
    4,879
    Location:
    Kent, the Garden of England
    Never mind Flook - you haven't been exactly idle Huncamunca. Well done. :)
     
    Ma-dotcom and Huncamunca like this.
  16. Steve

    Steve Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    Birmingham, England
    Looking at that 1911 census, something that shoots straight out at me is Ada's birthdate and place. At 13 it would make it 1898. Charles signed up for the Militia 22 Aug 1899. His address is noted as Cromwell Street, as he has not been there longer than 12 months he has put his previous address. 28 Weaman Street.
    So both William and family and Charles were in the same small street at roughly the same time
     
  17. Steve

    Steve Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    Birmingham, England
    In fact thinking it through. If I order Ada's birth certificate it will give her birth place. If this is 28 Weaman street would it be enough to link directly to Charles ? Could Charles have been living with William prior to joining the Militia ?
     
    Ma-dotcom likes this.
  18. Steve

    Steve Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    Birmingham, England
    Possible wife for William. Caroline Woodfield marriage birmingham 1895.
    Ill check it out on Ancestry Tuesday at Library.
     
  19. Flook

    Flook A True Gentleman. Rest in Peace.

    Offline
    Messages:
    1,735
    Likes Received:
    3,255
    Location:
    Nottingham U.K.
    I would think there's a very good chance but unless you're tremendously lucky you're probably never going to get any concrete evidence of what was happening between 1891 and 1901 apart from the militia papers and any other official documents (such as Ada's birth certificate). It certainly means you'll have to invest in one or more certificates because I don't see how speculation can really get you any further with this.

    I note that Ada was born in "Weamon Street" which is parallel to what is now Snow Hill Queensway. Is that an alternative spelling for Weyman Street (where the old Birmingham Post building used to be)?
     
  20. Steve

    Steve Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    Birmingham, England
    Thats right Flook they are the same road. The Post and Mail used to be at the top end opposite LLoyd house, where it joins Colmore Circus
     
    Flook likes this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice