My other brick....

Discussion in 'Warwickshire' started by Steve, Jul 14, 2014.

  1. Steve

    Steve Member

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    There's a strange entry in St James Ashted. page 551 no 4476. (1895)
    There's a baptism for an Alice on May 8th, born Apr 24 1895. Can't be the Alice from 1911 census. But parents William and Caroline, what appears to be Bailey. I think the curator started to write the surname with a 'y' Bayley like the Bayliss entry above. He seems to have scribbled out the tail on the y and dotted it as an i. This William and Caroline are in Lawley Street.
     
  2. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

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    I did look at that one the other day, and wondered if the first letter of the surname was an R not a B. I think I saw another child baptised as Riley. Sorry I can't check now . . . it's been a very long day and I need to head for bed.
     
  3. Steve

    Steve Member

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    Hmmmmmm.

    Been looking for Ada Bailey's birth index to order a copy. Searching Ancestry for Ada Bailey 1898 Warwickshire throws up a nice possibility Ada Bailey Q3 Birmingham 6d 45. However, looking at the original doc sends you to the 'M's ??
    Navigating to B to look for the entry draws a blank. As does a search through the quarters.
    FreeBMD does not list the entry for an Ada Bailey in 1898. So where does this index come from. More to the point how do I find William and Caroline's daughter Ada from 1898
     
  4. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Any good?: from Familysearch.
    Ada Emily Bailey
    Event Type: Birth Registration- Oct-Nov-Dec
    Registration Year: 1897
    Registration District: Birmingham
    Event Place: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England 6D-151
    FreeBMd:
    Births Dec 1897
    Bailey Ada Emily Birmingham 6d-151
    ................
    Births Jun 1898
    Bailey Ada Elizabeth- Birmingham 6d-146
    Bailey Ada Grace- Aston 6d-428 (1.4 miles)

    Births Jun 1899
    Bailey Ada -Atherstone 6d-531(21.6 miles to birmingham.)
    ...........
     
  5. Steve

    Steve Member

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    Thx Wendy.
    I have seen all those.

    There are baptism's for a couple, Ada Emily's parents are Albert and Margaret. Ada Elizabeth's Helen and Selina so no good as not William and Caroline's child.
    Ada is noted on 1911 census as being born in Weaman Street, its this I want to confirm. Hopefully a house number to.

    So that cancels out the Atherstone birth and most likely the Aston one to as Weaman Street is in the Centre of Birmingham
     
  6. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

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    Ancestry have somehow corrupted their version of the FreeBMD database so some entries have the wrong years.

    From FreeBMD there is an Ada Bailey birth registered in the Birmingham district with vol. 6d page 45 but it's in the second quarter of 1877 not the second quarter of 1898.

    Ancestry's logic (?!?) for inferring counties from registration districts often goes badly wrong. Take my local district, Witney, for example. Most of the parishes in the Witney registration district have always been firmly in Oxfordshire, though one bit was a detached part of Gloucestershire and a small area was sometimes in Berkshire. But Ancestry disagrees! According to them, the Witney registration district was in Derbyshire in the first quarter of 1946, in Leicestershire in the second quarter, in Staffordshire in the third quarter and only in Oxfordshire in the last quarter. In other years it moves to Hertfordshire, Buckinghamshire, Middlesex, Hampshire among others, just occasionally coming back to its proper place in Oxfordshire. In some years it is in Oxfordshire for three quarters of the year, but goes on an annual holiday to Buckinghamshire in the last quarter.o_O

    The moral of that story is that I would avoid putting county names in when searching BMD registrations on Ancestry, as whatever system they have used is crazy. In fact I would avoid using Ancestry for searching BMD registrations unless they are too recent to be on FreeBMD.

    Sorry, rant over . . . back to your question:

    Perhaps your Ada's birth wasn't registered under the name Bailey? Her father was also known as William Smith, so Smith is one possibility. If William wasn't married to Caroline, then there's also the possibility that their children's births were registered under her maiden name, whatever that was.
     
  7. Steve

    Steve Member

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    Oh well. Had to bite the bullet. Ive sent an email to the registry office saying I want William Bailey Smiths birth cert, if it has Betsy on there in any guise Bailey, Smith and or Cooley. I have also sent a list of what I think are 7 possible indexes for this John Baily Smith aka Charles Bailey. I have centred the index search on Q1 1881 as I believe my Charles is born in the Feb of that year. I've asked for the birth cert that matches the mothers name on Williams. As I haven't done this before, only ordered ones Im sure of, I sent an email along with an explanation and request for how to go about ordering and paying for this.
    As Im no closer to finding an index for William's daughter Ada or a marriage to Caroline ?? I think its the only option left at this time

    So just waiting on a reply :)
     
  8. Steve

    Steve Member

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    Hmmm. Just got an email back. The resident Genealogist, John Yates, retired August. Because of savings to be made they wont be filling his post meaning they cant offer FH research :(
    They did, however as a goodwill gesture look at the 7 indexes I sent and none have Betsy as mother. The ones I looked at were;

    All Q1 1881
    John Smith Birmingham 6d 176
    Charles Smith Birmingham 6d 178
    Charles Smith Birmingham 6d 196
    Charles Smith Aston 6d 318
    Charles Smith Aston 6d 319
    Male Smith Aston 6d 244
    Male Smith Aston 6d 262

    So I'll have to keep looking......
     
  9. Flook

    Flook A True Gentleman. Rest in Peace.

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    I see Ancestry have just released Birmingham Rate Books 1831-1913. It might be worth a trawl through these to find any addresses & occupiers you want in between censuses.
     
  10. Grizel

    Grizel Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if it might be possible to pick up any of the Bailey Smith children (Ada, William, John, Charles) in school records held at Birmingham Archives. I can see there are schools in Gem St which is in the area but there may be other schools to consider. There seem to be records for Bishop Ryder's primary school in Gem St (ref s24)and also an industrial school in Gem Street (ref ms 994). Not online as far as I can see though.
     
  11. Steve

    Steve Member

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    As the Register is now on FMP and its has just been added to look at free for World subscibers I have managed to start looking for Charles again. It still is not easy. There are no Charles b1881 residing in Birmingham :( So I have started looking at all Charles Bailey's b1881. I have come across one that is interesting. He is living in Manchester with a Mary Nichols. His birth date in the search is 10 April 1881 but looking at the record it is stated as 14 Feb 1881. However there are some edits, is there anyone who can share what these edits mean. I probably cannot attach the record here but can attach a cropped version only showing the edits, if thats allowed. Else a link to the record if anyone else has access

    regards Steve
     
  12. Steve

    Steve Member

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    I have managed to trim the record to show just the piece I am interested in. This entry is for a Charles Bailey in Manchester b 14 Feb 1881, this is ideal for me.
    What Im trying to find out is what the date 10 April 18 WRJ? means, also the A something over the top of W for Widower




    1939.jpg
     
  13. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Hi Steve,

    Not sure about why there date is different above the date given but the WRJ refers to the Swindon, Wiltshire registration district.
     
  14. Steve

    Steve Member

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    Hmm thx Jan, hope that doesn't mean he is from there. Im hoping this would be my Charles from Birmingham. It's looking like the only chance I've got of finding him is to be allowed to browse all GRO births like you can with parish records. Wonder if that will ever come to pass?
     
  15. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Could the registration-[after the birth date] be where the Father or who-ever registered the birth, happened to be at the time? It still falls within the time for registering. I've had similars come up which seemed to be the Baptism being mixed in but may also have been the registration.
    Perhaps the difference between the person giving details for '1939 reg. sheet & some one checking it later.?
     
  16. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    This probably has nought to do with anything but.....
    I was just having a bit of a look on Lancashire OPC, after the mention of Manchester in post 53 and came across a baptism for Charles Bailey s/o William and Rose 10 April 1881 St Thomas Preston Lancashire, abode 20 Emmett Street, occupation, Piecer.
    As I said probably nought to do with anything but the date & name and fathers name caught my attention.
     
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  17. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    There is also on google some information on William Bailey and Rose Perry and their son Alfred William who was injured in the Boer War. William the father died in 1895, then Rose married William Whalley. Some of the children used the name Whalley.
    Of course this is all speculation but worth a thought or two.
     
  18. Steve

    Steve Member

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    Whats a 'Flogger On Pope Track'. Rose and William's Charles Bailey's occupation in 1911 census
     
  19. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    What is the census reference, please - or more details of where they were living so that those with access may check the original?
     
  20. Steve

    Steve Member

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    Class: RG14; Piece: 25265 Living in Preston with wife Margaret Ann and son

    and its pipe track not pope sry
     
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