Philip Howse - Oxfordshire

Discussion in 'Oxfordshire' started by Kirsty Catalano, Aug 14, 2014.

  1. janetbooth

    janetbooth Top Dog Stalwart

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    Kirsty,

    You can check the baptismal record for Philip in 1831 yourself on Ancestry as it appears in their Non-conformist baptisms and you can then download the actual register entry for your own records.

    Janet
     
  2. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

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    Her death certificate should give her father's name, and will include the name and address of the informant (who may be a relative). If she died at home then the home address may be additional confirmation of her identity.

    You may also be able to find a burial record, but (for parish burial registers at least) these may give only minimal information, just name, age and abode. She may have been buried in a public cemetery, rather than a parish churchyard.

    I suspect Philip & Mary may have had at least two more children who died young. On the 1861 census they have a 2 year old son Alfred, who doesn't appear on later censuses so may be the Alfred Howse whose death was registered in the last quarter of 1863. The death of a Philip Howse was also registered in that quarter; perhaps he is the child whose birth had been registered in the third quarter of 1861. On the 1871 census there is quite a big gap between the surviving children Mary Ann and Edwin where Philip might have belonged.

    Birth/death certificates and baptism/burial records would help you fill in the details.
     
  3. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

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    Re. the Elizabeth Hedges who married John Penny and then Philip Howse, my guess would be that she was not George Mathews' biological daughter, but a step-daughter. It seems likely that she is the Elizabeth Jane Hedges whose birth was registered in the Bloomsbury district in the last quarter of 1840, some 3 years before George Mathews married Elizabeth Hedges (Janet has found the details of the marriage: see above).

    On the 1851 census, she is listed as Elizabeth Mathews, but on the 1861 census and when she married John Penny she gave her surname as Hedges, which might suggest that she did not consider herself to be a Mathews. Her birth certificate would probably only show her mother's name (though in the early days of the civil registration system, some birth certificates of illegitimate children do give the father's name).

    Here's a guide to what information you can expect to find on English and Welsh BMD certificates at different times (remove the space after the 'www.'):
    www. dixons.clara.co.uk/Certificates/indexbd.htm
     
  4. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    You may also like to read this article about what may be found on English and Welsh certificates. :)
     
  5. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

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    Oops, sorry, Jan, I wasn't deliberately ignoring your excellent article. :oops:
     
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  6. Kirsty Catalano

    Kirsty Catalano Active Member

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    I've manged to find copies of all the above mentioned birth notices from Ancestry which is fabulous! I never knew the Registry existed! Pot of gold. :)
     
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  7. Kirsty Catalano

    Kirsty Catalano Active Member

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    I think I've finalised all the information I need. The only thing left to confirm by certificate is the marriage of Philip and Elizabeth Penny which I will do at a later time. Thank you all so much for your help. I have some other lines in the family I may look into using this site - it's awesome. I'll be spreading the love. xx
     
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  8. euryalus

    euryalus Well-Known Member

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    I don't understand this. Methodist chapels are not normally named after saints. It is more likely that the chapel in question was located within the Anglican parish of St Michaels (presumably in Oxford, because Combe/Coombe parish church is dedicated to St Laurence).
     
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  9. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

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    This is a case of confusing labelling in a transcript of the baptism record on FamilySearch. It is they who say the baptism was at 'Saint Michaels-Wesleyan, Oxford'.

    For details of how the original register is described in The National Archives' catalogue, see post #74. One of the early pages of the register does refer to the original Methodist chapel in Oxford having been in the parish of St Michael, which may explain FamilySearch's odd labelling.

    What I have not been able to determine is whether this is a register only of baptisms at Oxford, or whether it includes baptisms throughout the Oxford Methodist circuit (which included Combe).
     
  10. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    I'm not sure that it is entirely FamilySearch's fault ...;)
    Of course I cannot remember where I read it, but I did read an article describing how when non-conformist registers were sent to record offices nobody had thought about how to catalogue them so they were recorded under already existing Anglican parishes, which the staff at the record office knew and understood, but often made little or no sense in terms of the actual records in the register --- often the register would be that of an individual minister who may have served many congregations, yet it would be catalogued as if a register of one congregation within the (Anglican) parish of his last address ---

    I'd better stop there as I am relying too much on my memory (which as we all know is faulty:rolleyes:), I expect it was the last edition of the Genealogist's Magazine (and of course I cannot remember where I put it:oops:)
     
  11. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

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    Thanks muggy for those insights. :) That sounds like a useful article which I evidently need to read! You have spurred me into investigating the 'real' title of this document, if there is such a thing.

    My earlier comments were based on The National Archives' catalogue entry for RG 4/1446 which just labels this register as 'OXFORDSHIRE: Oxford (Wesleyan): Births & Baptisms 1829-1837'. But I see now that the BMD Registers site calls the same volume 'Register of Births and Baptisms at the Wesleyan Chapel in the Parish of Oxford St Michael, Oxfordshire from 1829 to 1837'.o_O That might suggest that the way the register was catalogued at Kew might have changed, and that there is or was another list which does include the 'St Michael' bit.

    Sorry, FamilySearch, I retract my rude remark :oops:
     
  12. euryalus

    euryalus Well-Known Member

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    When I said that Methodist chapels were "not normally named after saints" I was selecting my words very carefully, because there do seem to have been a very few that were named after saints - an example being St Johns Church in Colwyn Bay. This must however be a very rare example (?)
     
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  13. euryalus

    euryalus Well-Known Member

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    Regarding the earlier query about a "St Michaels Methodist Church, could this have been the "United Methodist Free Church" in St Michael's Street, Oxford - the "United" Methodists being a separate denomination, with no links to the Wesleyans or Primitives.
     

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