Photo: date or age?

Discussion in 'Ask The Experts' started by Yeates, Jul 29, 2013.

  1. Yeates

    Yeates Active Member

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    Does anyone have an opinion as to the date of this photo? Even an opinion about the age of this gentleman (my great grandfather, Joseph Henry Pope, b. 1861) would help solve a mystery I am pursuing. Thank you.---Yeates JHPcompressed.jpg
     
  2. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    The gentleman's shirt collar suggests Edwardian period.
     
  3. gillyflower

    gillyflower Always caring about others

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    I may be sticking my neck out a bit but how about 1925-1930. I am looking at his suit which is double breasted.the lapels on his suit are fairly wide I wish they were standing it would a bit easier. I would say the gent in question I would say he was early seventies
     
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  4. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    We're at odds here aren't we gillyflower? Must say I'm no expert and was basing my estimation on the man's shirt collar and the fact that he has no wrinkles, which suggested an age of no more than say 50.
     
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  5. Yeates

    Yeates Active Member

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    Interesting. Well, 1931 puts Joseph at 70 yrs. So, double-breasted a style in the late 20s as opposed to simply an "old" suit he had?---Yeates

    Did they airbrush back then? Could the photographer have de-wrinkled him? The reason narrowing the years is impt is, this is not my great grandmother. She didn't die until 1933....so.....ok, Joseph Henry, what was going on?---Yeates
     
  6. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

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    Could she be a grand aunt? She looks younger than him.

    Both have taken great care with their appearances for the camera - the straightened tie, the immaculate hair etc. They look comfortable in each other's company.
     
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  7. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Although my great grandfather is looking rather crumpled in this photograph, he is wearing a similar shirt collar to that which is in your photograph, Yeates. It has rounded corners.

    My photograph was taken in the late 1930s.

    Frederick Milsted.jpg

    (Click on the thumbnail to enlarge)
     
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  8. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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  9. Libby

    Libby Well-Known Member

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    I would put the gentleman in his 50s.
     
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  10. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    me too ... o_O or a youngish 60s
     
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  11. Yeates

    Yeates Active Member

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    I've noted before the care with which they dressed and posed for this professional photograph---as if for an anniversary or an event. I have always thought the body language suggested a closeness as in a couple rather that a sister or an aunt. heh heh it has been my experience brothers don't dress up for their sisters.....I am recalling my brother wearing hiking boots to my wedding....However, I must agree with you that I have to consider this another family member and not a 2nd wife or significant other.---Yeates

    Boy....this photo of your great grandfather and how he is dressed looks SO similar to my Joseph Henry's outfit, doesn't it? Late 30s....that would put it after my great grandmother's death and make a 2nd wife likely.----Yeates

    Yes, it does. It has a similarity to how Joseph Henry's ensemble is---I saw the dates of the children underneath, but when do you think this photo was taken. Based on the birth (1908) of the younges child, maybe about 1913? Joseph Henry was in his early 50s then.---Yeates

    I've always thought 60 as the photo looks EXACTLY like a family member of mine dressed in period clothing. If true, photo about 1921. Again, great grandmother still alive.

    By the way, the rough estimate of ages given from responses is 50+ = 3; 60+ = 2; 70+ = 1.

    Thanks, everyone. You've given me something to mull over. This may be one of those things that will always be left to speculation.--Yeates
     
  12. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    Yes Yeates, about 1912/13.

    I do hope you work it out eventually. Can we help further? Maybe search for a 2nd marriage?
     
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  13. Mutters

    Mutters I am not bossy, I just have better ideas.

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    Well I'm going to plum for 1915 or even a few years before.
    The wide collar with the v neck that the lady is wearing was quite the rage in about the middle of the decade. I think the high necked white lace blouse underneath was called a chemisette. Her hair with the plaits tied up and a central parting was common round about 1910. Women are normally far more fashionable than the men.
    I'd say he was about 50 years old.
     
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  14. Yeates

    Yeates Active Member

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    I hestitate to ask for help if it could waste people's time. I've tried to solve this mystery for the past several years every time a new clue arose. Here's the thing:
    *Matilda, my great grandmother and Joseph Henry's wife (and my avatar) died in 1933. Her probate claims she is married to JH but her executor is her daughter and her assets are left to this daughter and a son.

    *JH absolutely can't be found in the 1911. He was a carpenter so could have been out of the house "on a job" or, of course, visiting someone---but he is simply not anywhere.

    *I have located a Canadian incoming ship record that is likely (not proven) to be him in 1911 arriving in Halifax with destination of Victoria, BC---plausible as this was a time of great logging efforts and also mining speculation if he had the gambling spirit as his son, my grandfather, had. If in BC at this time, he would have been caught in Canada's 1911, but not that I can find.

    *Yesterday, at the library, I churned through the 800+ incoming UK ship records in case his initials were reversed or mis-typed or mis-filed in the database---I know he returned to England because I have his death cert as having died in his son's home in 1944.

    *If true (and Mutters has most interesting data points for establishing about 1915 as the time of the photo), JH and this (very kind looking lady) were together before Matilda's death. My father lived off & on with Matilda the first 9 years of his life---he had stories of her but never of his grandfather, suggesting he didn't know his grandfather.

    So you see, he sounds like a man who doesn't want to be found, doesn't he? (although, 1901 and earlier, he is easy to find.) Maybe this lady is from Canada. Based on the Mutters email that would fit, if indeed he was in BC for awhile. This a wishy-washy way of saying help would be great to maybe find a marriage record but, given what I've outlined above, no one should use precious time on such an elusive person.---Yeates
     
  15. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Be assured, Yeates. No one would consider this to be a waste of time as a) they all love a mystery and b) enjoy the thrill of the chase! ;)
     
  16. Yeates

    Yeates Active Member

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    How interesting. Thank you. Even though it points to a possible abandonment of his family by JH. Funny, because that is such an egrigeous thing for a father/husband to do and the lady in the photo looks so NICE and kind.---Yeates
     
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  17. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

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    She does. That was the first thing that struck me about the photo.

    Is it possible she didn't know about the 'other family'?

    Quite, DB - and this is very intriguing.
     
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  18. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Hah that was the first thing that struck me too, the second was that he reminded me of Spencer Tracy :), sort of ...

    They both of them look nice and kind, and so well-suited.
     
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  19. Yeates

    Yeates Active Member

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    heh heh....oh great....remember Spencer Tracy abandoned HIS family in order to be with Katherine Hepburn...

    Hmmmm. Guess I’ll pull at your heartstrings a bit….
    This photo hung in my father’s bedroom. I have mentioned before he traveled annually to England the last decade of his life in search of childhood memories and family but did not find much and even veered into incorrect families. Dad always told us this photo was his grandfather and grandmother, and he valued it greatly. Then, surprise surprise…when I started pursuing genealogy after Dad died (he would have been 100 this year...)---and, when, in his papers I found three photos of his actual grandmother, Matilda as young; middle-aged; and elderly, there is no question the lady in the photo is not my Dad’s grandmother. It is not surprising Dad was wrong about the photo---he had been a small boy when living with his grandmother in Bromley. And, if his grandfather was not around much if at all---well, being the sentimental person he was, I can see where Dad “adopted” this photo as the loving ideal of grandparenthood. As far as Dad knew, this was an aged Matilda (which the photos disprove) and there is NO doubt it is JHP.

    Dad was a sentimentalist and had a great capacity for understanding the motives and personality-drives of people. He would not have viewed this as scandal, I don’t think (if scandal it was)….he would have been more interested in that everyone was happy and taken care of. Knowing that drives me to keep trying to solve the mystery.---Yeates
     
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  20. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    And we'll certainly do our best to help you achieve that :)
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    As others' have said Joseph Henry and his companion both look kindly folk, the lady has an approachable air, she looks very warm hearted; Joseph is handsome and he too looks good natured.
     

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