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Please help me identify this child!

Discussion in 'Dorset' started by mugwortismy cat, Nov 21, 2016.

  1. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Trying to tidy up the family of Tom Thorne and Emily Churchill after discovering I have them twice :eek:

    Their son Henry Edwin John Churchill THORNE (or Edwin Henry, or even just plain John :rolleyes:) married a cousin of mine, he was born 1903 on Portland, and I don't have his baptism, but found a transcript for that of what must be a sister Dorothy on 17 Apr 1903 (not traced her yet, she does not appear in 1911, and I assume she died)

    There was also Edwin James Tom (1877), and Albert Edward Arthur Eli (1894).

    In the 1891 census there also appears Elizabeth M T (1881) born Weymouth. I am not convinced that the last initial is a T. She doesn't appear with the family in 1901. I can find no birth record for her, nor a marriage or death, no baptism found either.

    Who is she?

    The 1891 census ref is RG12; 1650; 39; 27
     
  2. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    The confusing thing is that the 1911 census says Emily had 3 children all still alive :(
     
  3. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

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    Still considering that 't'. It's remarkably similar to the 's' in Smith below, isn't it?
     
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  4. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

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    Sorry, Mugs. Just going round and round in circles too.
     
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  5. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Well thank you for trying :)

    The only consolation I have so far is the recurrence of the name Dorothy in the descendants of Tom and Emily, so I am thinking the Dorothy in my original post must be a twin of Henry Edwin.

    I'm also pulling up loads of Kathleens but Elizabeths are thin on the ground.

    I'll keep going on the Thornes in the hope of a brainwave, but I shouldn't really be spending all this time on the in-laws of a cousin :rolleyes:
     
  6. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    She can't be Henry's twin as his birth was registered Dec 1903, Weymouth 5a 296, whereas you have a baptism for Dorothy 17th Apr 1903.
     
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  7. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    Muggy, Dorothy's birth possibly registered Jun 1903.

    Dorothy Thorne, Weymouth, Jun 1903, 5a 288

    ETA: Death June 1903.

    Thorne Dorothy 0 Weymouth 5a 185
     
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  8. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Oh moo, still hadn't checked that out ... Thanks for checking for me, another theory scotched, unless .... Maybe they baptised her quickly as she was poorly, then she died and death/ birth reg dealt with in one go :( ... And then they registered Henry late (not sure he ever got a baptism) ... Clutching at straws ...

    I have an Elizabeth Churchill Thorne, granddaughter of Tom and Emily, but that doesn't really get me closer to the original Elizabeth
     
  9. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    The Dorothy Thorne whose birth was registered in Weymouth in the June qtr of 1903 had the mother's maiden name of Hinde (GRO Online Index)
     
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  10. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Then she is James Edwin's child, and a granddaughter of Tom and Emily

    so who is the Dorothy baptised with parents Tom and Emily!? Was the vicar confused?
     
  11. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    There is the birth registration for a Dorothy Winifred Thorne registered in the December qtr of 1904 (5A/207) in Blandford with mother's maiden name Churchill.
     
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  12. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    That's interesting!! If confusing ... Why Blandford? And birth in 1904 can't be the same child as the 1903 baptism .... Now I am really confused :confused::headbang:


    Ah, daughter of Job and Fanny Thorne, of Ansty ... Who have a 'mother' Emily Churchill living with them.
     
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  13. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    OK, I have decided the 1903 Dorothy is definitely James Edwin/Edwin James's child, I am assuming the vicar was drunk or otherwise mentally incapacitated and recorded grandparents names in error.

    Having thoughts about Elizabeth ... Her brother Albert was born in Fareham, but baptised in Fordington near Dorchester. Perhaps Elizabeth was also born elsewhere?

    Not in Fareham, sadly.

    Of course I have no idea if Elizabeth is her first second or third name on her registration. Or maybe the enumerator 'tidied' her name from Betty or Kitty ...


    Had a wild thought, maybe I forgot to check Thorn/Churchill births in 1891 (just in case her age in 1891 was meant to be in months or weeks), pretty sure I did ThornE births then

    Looky what I found:

    Elizabeth Mercy Thorn mmn Churchill
    Mar 1891 Medway

    Anyone want to help (dis)prove it?


    Bumbles! :mad: not her she is in Rochester in 1891
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2016
  14. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    Think this is the family in Rochester in 1891 RG12/657/22/12, father Thomas born Rochester, mother Mary A. born Lambeth, Elizabeth M. born Rochester.
     
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  15. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    I think I have been countrywide looking at birth registrations for an Elizabeth etc or a something Elizabeth etc Thorne or Thorn either side of 1881 and 1891, both on FreeBMD and GRO sites, with/without mmn Churchill. Nothing doing ... One or two Thorn(e)/Churchill births, but can definitely place them elsewhere, one or two with no mmn but they don't look likely. I even checked all female Thorne births without specifying a first or second name. Maybe I missed one :sceptical:

    Conclusions: either (1) she wasn't registered, (2) she wasn't a Thorne but an illegitimate child of Tom's, (3) she was an 'adopted' daughter,(4) the enumerator made her up o_O
     
  16. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Another thought ... She is actually Tom's stepsister Elizabeth Jane Barrett ... Except she was born 1871 in Dorchester

    All out of ideas for now :(
     
  17. MarkJ

    MarkJ Well-Known Member

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    Love that! I am going to use that in the notes for a few of my ancestors!
     
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  18. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    You and me both :(
     
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  19. Ben Thorne

    Ben Thorne New Member

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    Hello there.
    James Edwin Tom Thorne was my great grandfather. Anything I can help with?
     
  20. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Hi :)

    Just been re-reading my thread, but I feel distinctly lost in it it's been a while.

    Can you identify the mysterious Elizabeth?
     
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