Quaker Record

Discussion in 'Non-conformist Records' started by warncoort, Jan 3, 2014.

  1. warncoort

    warncoort Guest

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    Folks,
    My Mothers maternal line is from Suttons and earlier Dockrays of Cumberland which led me to BMDRegisters where i have spent some dollars to verify information;with addition of these records to Ancestry cost will now be better controlled,allowing me to search the edges of my tree.The sheer accuracy of records is a delight.
    I am working from a tree compiled by Robert Sutton circa 1880,he became a Methodist Minister in Manchester and shared information with his Australian relatives.
    I have Benjamin Dockray who marries Sarah Harrisson in 1691 and has eight children up to 1709 including 2 girls named Ann,one born 18 Feb 1699,one born 18 Feb 1700 also viewed original entry for each but can find no record of a death of the older child.Is this just a clerical error,death not recorded,one child two entries?
    Regards,
    Eric
     
  2. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Hi Eric - a couple of questions...
    Are these both birth entries or are they baptism entries? It would seem odd that two children were born on the same day one year apart - not impossible, but rare.

    However, one thought that occurred to me is that, as February is still close to the beginning of the year, whoever was recording it did not trip over from 1699 to 1700 initially and so recorded it again with the correct year.

    Which register did you see this in and for which location? :)
     
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  3. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

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    Looking at RG 6/1241, a register of the 'Monthly meeting of Pardshaw (Whitehaven, Cockermouth, Broughton) and Isell (1651-1794)', on Ancestry, I suspect it is the same birth recorded twice, once in isolation and once as part of a list of children of Benjamin Dockray.

    image 33 (with stamped folio no. 15)
    Ann Dockray doughter of Beniaman Dockray of Pryorhall was borne the 18th of the twelfth month in the year 1699
    This comes between a birth record for 13th day/8th month/1699 and another for 7th day/6th month/1700.

    image 34 (with handwritten page no. 34)
    has list of several children of Benjamin, including an Ann 'borne 18th day of the 12th month in the year 1700'

    The confusion over the year may reflect the double dating system sometimes used to refer to dates between 1 January and 24 March in the period when the new year started on 25 March.
     
  4. warncoort

    warncoort Guest

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    Folks,
    When birth dates matched i had my doubts,but the individual birth and the family group clears it all up.
    Thanks,
    Eric
     
  5. warncoort

    warncoort Guest

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    Folks,
    Over the weekend,while rummaging through a document box,i found a very old tree written with pen and ink in a fine hand and would appear to pre-date Robert's 1880 tree,so i am now cross checking my tree against the older versions.I note several dates entered previously conflict with An******y's transcription so i have halted work for now.I know the Quakers did not name the month,merely its numerical order;so did they count from January or April?
    Eric
     
  6. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    January. :)

    Edited to add:
    They also used numbers to denote the days of the week starting with Sunday = 1.
     
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  7. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

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    After 1752 I think it is safe to say January. But before the calendar change it is more problematical, and I'm not sure the same system was used consistently everywhere, so would advise caution in interpreting such dates.

    Sometimes the name of the month is given too, which makes life much easier. Otherwise you may be able to tell what numbering system was being used by studying other entries in the register.

    P.S. As the new year began on 25 March, you could argue that the 'first month' ought to be the last few days of March. Then April would be the second month, and so on. mmm, but then February would be the 12th month, so what would you call 1st to 24th March? The 13th month? :confused:
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2014
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  8. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

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    To give a few examples, all from RG 6/1378 (Witney Monthly Meeting):

    'William Son of John & Elizabeth Hill of Witney was born the Second day of the tenth month (Call'd December) 1727'

    'John Waring Son of Elijah & Hannah Waring of Witney was born on the 6th day of the 3d month Call'd May 1727, between twelve & one in the Day time in the Presence of Martha Walter Midwife Mary Waring Eliz: Crowley &c.'

    but then a little further down the page is a record of another child of Elijah & Hannah Waring, recorded as being 'born the 11th day of April 1732'.

    As you can see the format is inconsistent even in one register. Later on will have a look to see if I can see what happened for the last few days of March. Must get to work now . . .
     
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  9. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

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    So far I haven't found anything from 25th to the end of March, but will keep looking. As for the earlier part of March, there's this example from RG 6/1370 (Witney Monthly Meeting): John Reynolds and Mary Flexney were married at Witney 'this Twenty third day of the first Month Call'd March in the Year According to the English Account 1718' (much more detail is given).

    So it would seem that (at least in Witney) the whole of March was called the first month, even though most of it was in the old year.
     
  10. Flook

    Flook A True Gentleman. Rest in Peace.

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    There is a Guide to the Quaker Calendar accessible from this page> http://www.
    quaker.org.uk/subject-guides
     
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  11. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

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    Thank you for that, Flook: very interesting, especially the section on 'Inconsistencies'.
    I particularly liked this bit of advice:

    'Apart from variations in principle as to the first 24 days of March, you should allow for ordinary and continuing human failure to remember to write the correct date early on in the New Year'.

    Too true! I still haven't got used to calling this year 2014 and it is half way through April already! :)
     
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  12. warncoort

    warncoort Guest

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    Thank you all,i will opt for 12 months each year beginning with January.No doubt someone will question my format but it makes sense to me.
    Eric
     
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  13. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

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    We will have to agree to disagree on which was the first month before 1752.:)

    Whatever convention you adopt, make sure you explain it, and somehow indicate that the name of the month has been inferred: it is always important to distinguish what the register actually says and what is your interpretation.
     

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