Re-written?

Discussion in 'Church Records' started by Half Hour, May 12, 2019.

  1. Half Hour

    Half Hour Well-Known Member

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    I would like your opinions... do you think this baptism record has been re-written? I think it has as it looks like they have gone over the original. In particular I am interested in John Bate with parents Robert and Susannah. Do you think it could be Bates? Manchester, England, Baptisms, Marriages and Burials 1573-1812 Christenings in February 1802. The date fits from census records and the mother's name is the same as John's grand daughter.... I might be reaching for stars, but I can't find his parent's names anywhere. He got married to Esther Leach in 1828.. no parent's names :( Shortly after that they came to Canada.... ( If this is the correct John )
     

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  2. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Do you mean this one? I think it looks clear & only once written, but I wouldn't worry about a missing 's'. things like that changed from docco to docco.[ document sorry] John Bate.JPG
     
  3. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Is he the same child who died in 1803 in Salford?
    Code:
    Manchester, England, Church of England Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1541-1812 for John Bate
    S.pox
    Name: John Bate
    Death Age: 1
    Event Type: Burial
    Birth Date: abt 1802
    Burial Date: 4 Sep 1803
    Burial Place: Salford, Sacred Trinity, Lancashire, England
    Parish as it Appears: Salford Trinity Parish Church
    Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Map:
    Reference Number:
    L131/1/2
    Archive Roll: 560

    I notice a John Bate on 1841- Manchester married to Ann. the squiggle on the end of Bate can pass for an 's'.
     
  4. GrannyBarb

    GrannyBarb Custodian of the Family Accounts

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    upload_2019-5-11_19-48-25.png

    I don't know. When you zoom it up really large, it does appear to have a shadow, especially under the "t" and perhaps a very pale "s" at the end. It's like the instant replay on the sports - one can make a case either way. If all else fits your lad, then I say it's him! :)
     
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  5. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Oh I see what is meant, Sorry sue. Yes it looks as tho' the cross bar of the 't' was erased. I took it as still there when I looked.
     
  6. Half Hour

    Half Hour Well-Known Member

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    That's what I did with it..zoomed in....
    @Ma-dotcom no.. he lived and came to Canada.. married in 1828.. not sure this is the right guy or not. can only find him on one census in Canada, but he was here..son was born in same town hubby was, found him in the cemetery with a death date, but can't find his death.. hubby's 2X gr. grandfather.
     
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  7. Sis

    Sis Rootles out resources!

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    Here's 3 different versions with various adjustments done.

    Annotation 2019-05-12 102537 - 2.jpg

    Annotation 2019-05-12 102537 - 3.jpg

    Annotation 2019-05-12 102537 - 4.jpg
     
  8. kernowmaid

    kernowmaid Well-Known Member

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    Are you querying whether it's BALE or BATE? (As Wendy said, an "S" on the end is irrelevant).
    I read BATE.
    The almost-missing cross-stroke compares with the same in "MILLISENT" (sic) below.
    The "blurry" effect could come from the ink bleeding into the paper - this is probably written with a dip-pen putting liquid onto a surface that was more like cloth than today's treated paper.
    Or perhaps from the nib itself - compare the first "A" in "HASLAM" below.

    Just guessing!
    Jane
     
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  9. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    I don't think it's been overwritten. The person who wrote the entries seems to have had a very light touch as far as crossing the letter 't' goes, and it would appear he has also drawn feint lines across the page to keep his writing straight :)
     
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  10. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    Some of the 'shadow' could be from what is written on the following page, as
    @kernowmaid mentioned, the ink used to soak into the paper and may well have permeated through the page.
     
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  11. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    It looks to me like a photo copy of a photo copy that has been written over.
    As can be seen by the faintness of the stroke of the ‘t’. Sorry folks.
     
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  12. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    There is a Joseph Bate baptised to Robert and Susannah on 1/4/1804 at Manchester cathedral. Could this be John’s brother? Note it is Bate without the s
     
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  13. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Just anothery on the 't ' cross. Martha line 6 & * from the bottom almost identical 't'. I rest my 't'. ;)

    't' bar.JPG
     
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  14. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Still not convinced.:rolleyes:
     
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  15. Half Hour

    Half Hour Well-Known Member

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    Neither am I, however as this is a "maybe" , not for certain relative, of hubby's , I'm not going to get everyone in a tizzy over him.
     
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