Rev Thomas Williams 1805 -1861

Discussion in 'Glamorgan' started by Philip Thomas, Dec 31, 2018.

  1. Philip Thomas

    Philip Thomas New Member

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    TW was born in Carmarthen in 1805 and died in 1861, being buried at Llanllwch, Carmarthen where he had served since at least 1844.

    He married Maria Davies (who was born in Merthyr in 1816 and died at Marston House, Hereford in 1907) daughter of Dr David Davies, 'of Ashfield House Chepstow' , who was a surgeon at an Iron Works in Merthyr.
    I have an idea that Thomas and Maria married in Merthyr in 1841 but hope, in due time, to convert the idea into fact!
     
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  2. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Hi Philip, welcome C|:-)
    Perhaps you may have seen a tree on Kiwi Trees. Information has that they were married June qtr 1855 at Merthyr Tydfl (no idea why I even try Welsh names) Their first child born in 1857. On the census of 1861 & 1871 they were at Tyntyla Farms. The mentioned farm and surrounding woods of Gelldawel(?) were the centre of the mystery of the murder of a young dairy maid by the name of Jane Davies. 'The Tyntyla Mystery'
    Perhaps our resident reporter and resident chimp may shed some light on this mystery.....intriguing.
    Or is this another couple of the same name.
    Oh dear my apologies. That was Thomas Williams and Maria Evans...tut tut. That would have made a good research item.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
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  3. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    In case you haven't seen these - from the Carmarthen Weekly Reporter 12th January 1861

    On the 5th instant, suddenly, of angina pectoris, at his residence, Milbrook, John’s Town, aged 56, the Rev. Thomas Williams, vicar of Newchurch and perpetual curate of Llanllwch.

    The Late Incumbent of Llanllwch - Our obituary column of this day chronicles the death of the above worthy, unassuming, and exemplary clergyman, under circumstances of a peculiarly affecting nature. He has been suddenly removed from his sphere of usefulness, leaving an affectionate wife and five children to lament the irreparable loss of a fond husband and a tender father. Verily, “in the midst of life we are in death,” for up to a very recent period previously to his death he was actively engaged in the discharge of his ministerial duties. We may truly say of him, without laying ourselves open to the charge of offensive eulogy, that the more he was known, the more he was respected, always displaying kind and friendly feelings towards all who were known to him, whether in the Church or out of it. His bereaved wife and family may rest assured of the public sympathy, which has been warmly expressed in every quarter. His funeral on Thursday last was most numerously and respectably attended, bearing evidence to the esteem in which the departed gentleman was held by his fellow townsmen. Through the demise of Mr Williams, the livings of Llanllwch and Newchurch, the chaplaincy of the Gaol, and that of the Union Workhouse, have been rendered vacant.

    In our obituary notices this week will be found recorded the lamented death of the Rev. T. Williams, Incumbent of Llanllwch. It appears that the reverend gentleman contracted a cold on a recent journey to London during very severe weather. His medical adviser requested him to keep indoors for a few days, which he did; but anxious to dispense the usual new year's gifts among the poorer members of his flock, he ventured out too soon and suffered a relapse, which suddenly ended in death. Mr Williams was the eldest son of the late Mr John Williams, Cabinet-maker, Lammas-street, in this town, and graduated at Lampeter. Unobtrusive in his character, and zealous and diligent in his holy calling, Mr Williams performed the duties of his sacred office with honour to himself and with benefit to the people of his charge, amongst whom, as well as the inhabitants generally, a universal sorrow prevails at his sudden departure. Through the death of Mr Williams the incumbencies of Llanllwch and Newchurch, and the chaplaincies of the Workhouse and the Gaol have been rendered vacant.
     
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  4. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

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    Struggling to find a marriage. There are, not surprisingly, a few marriages between those names in Merthyr around that time, but all make their mark - a young curate and a daughter of a surgeon would be well-educated.
     
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  5. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    upload_2019-1-1_9-9-46.png

    Cardiff and Merthyr Guardian - 9th December 1843
    upload_2019-1-1_9-10-17.png

    upload_2019-1-1_9-10-40.png
     
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  6. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    Cardiff and Merthyr Guardian 3rd February 1872
    On the 30th ult, at St. Luke's Church, Cheltenham, by the Rev. J. H. L. Gabell, M.A., Henry O'Neill, Esq., of Colville House, formerly of her Majesty's 11th Regiment, to Maria, widow of the late Rev. Thomas Williams, vicar of Newchurch, Llanllwych, Carmarthenshire.
     
  7. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    So, is this death notice for a previous wife......why couldn't they have given her a Christian name :sceptical:

    Cardiff and Merthyr Guardian 2nd January 1841
    On Saturday last, at the Parsonage House, Merthyr, Mrs Williams, lady of the Rev. Thomas Williams, Curate of the Parish, to the great grief of her husband and a large circle of friends and relatives, by whom she was much respected and beloved. Her remains were followed to the grave on Thursday, by a numerous company of the most respectable inhabitants of Merthyr and its neighbourhood, as well as of persons from a great distance.
     
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  8. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    It looks like she was called Elizabeth ;)

    upload_2019-1-1_10-35-27.png
     
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  9. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Cardiff and Merthyr Guardian - 30th January 1841

    MERTHYR TIDFIL
    TO BE SOLD BY AUCTION
    By Mr. Thos. Davies,
    On WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 10, 1841​
    ALL the very excellent HOUSEHOLD FURNITURE of the Rev. THOMAS WILLIAMS, at his residence the PARSONAGE HOUSE, MERTHYR TIDFIL. Consisting of Dining, Pembroke, and other Mahogany Tables. Mahogany and Fancy Chairs, Eight Day Clock in Mahogany Case. Feather Beds, Bedsteads, Bedsteps, Wash Hand Stands, and Commode, Dressing Tables, Mahogany Chest of Drawers, a Handsome Mahogany Sideboard, and elegant Wardrobe of large dimensions, with wings, a good Sofa Bed, Swing and other Looking Glasses, in Gilt and Mahogany Frames, Fancy Pictures, Dinner, Tea, Coffee, and China Services, China Bowls, Glass Decanters, sundry Earthenware, Shelf and Dresser, Fenders and Fire Irons, Kitchen requisires, Brewing-Utensils, and various other useful articles too numerous to be inserted in a handbill.
    The Sale to commence at 11 o'clock​
     
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  10. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    In AnnB's post #7 dated 2nd January 1841 (this was a Saturday) it says
    this would give a death date of Saturday 26th December 1840 and was buried on Thursday 31 December 1840.

    His daughter was buried on 4th December 1843 aged 11 months, baptised 9th December 1942, So this must have been the daughter to his second wife.

    Taking into account that, he being a Reverend and all, I can't see him and his 2nd wife having carnal knowledge before their nuptials (I could be wrong :rolleyes:) so we could say that the marriage would take place at least 9 months before the birth of their daughter March - April 1842

    Therefore his second marriage must have taken place after January 1841 and before March - April 1842.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
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  11. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    What a great bit of deduction :)

    I saw the sale notice and wonder why the good reverend decided to sell up - could all this ‘stuff’ have come from his wife’s family?
     
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  12. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    I was wondering that.
     
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  13. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

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    Marriage for a Thomas Williams and Elizabeth Davies in Merthyr, second quarter 1941. I can't find this in Merthyr Parish Church but I do notice that Thos. Williams curate disappears from the register after the 20th February 1841.
     
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  14. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    This does not help with the search for the marriage between Thomas and Maria, but I was having a rummage for that between Thomas and Elizabeth, to see if there could be clues to whether or not the property had come from her.

    Working on the theory that, if Thomas was a Minister, chances are that he would be able to read and write ;) there was just one marriage that I could find early on in Merthyr where the Thomas in question signed his name. All the others made their mark.

    This was the marriage between Thomas WILLIAMS and Elizabeth JONES on 20th December 1831. To confirm, it would need a check on whether or not any children were baptised to the couple, mentioning Thomas' occupation.

    Just a thought.... :)
     
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  15. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    They were still living in Merthyr in February 1844 as that is where they baptised their son David Stephens Williams on 20th February. Their next son William Knight Williams was baptised on 15th June 1845. Their address at this time was John's Town (Llanllwch)
     
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  16. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    From The Ecclesiastical Gazette 1845 Page 151
    ‘Rev Thomas Williams late Curate of Merthyl Tydfil to the Perpetual Curacy of Llanllwch, near Carmarthen. Patron the Bishop of St David’s’.
     
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  17. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    On the census of 1841 a Thomas Williams age 35, residence Twyn Yr Rhoddin, Merthyr Tydfil with daughter Margaret age 3. Of course being the 1841 we have no occupation. No other children listed. Margaret doesn’t appear with the new family in 1851.
     
  18. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Margaret Williams 1851 census age 13 born Methyr Tidfil living with uncle David Williams 50 inn keeper at Merthyr Tidfil. David and his wife Ann appear to have no children but there are nieces and cousins living there. Names of Morgan and Davies.
     
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  19. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    He's a coal miner... :(

    upload_2019-1-2_5-50-50.png
     
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  20. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Drat.
     
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