Richard Forder Shiner

Discussion in 'Dorset' started by mugwortismy cat, Aug 17, 2016.

  1. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    trying to track down the birthplace of Alfred Thomas Foot, who married Sarah's daughter Hilda. 1911 just says Glamorganshire, Wales, the 1901 says this

    Glamorgan.jpg

    I can't find a birth registration in Glamorgan ... :( ... ah, yes, it's in Merthyr Tydfil RD as Foote, which includes the following parishes

    Aberdare
    Gelligaer
    Llanfabon
    Llanwonno
    Merthyr Tydfil
    Penderyn
    Rhigos
    Vaynor
    Ystradyfodwg

    Do any of them seem possible? given the vagaries of English people pronouncing Welsh, maybe LLafabon or Llanwonno?!
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2016
  2. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Just seen that there is a Royal Navy service record for an Alfred Foot, born Aberdare 30 Jul 1892, which I think must be him. Does that help? @Chimp please take a look ... @Bay Horse too ...
     
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  3. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    There is a place near Aberdare called Cwmaman - looks like a possible:)
     
  4. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Excellent MM!! ;) very possible, and much more Welsh than Cornaman which is how the above was transcribed :)
     
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  5. Jon Shiner

    Jon Shiner New Member

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    Hi, Richard Forder Shiner (b1853) is my 1st cousin 3 times removed. He had a son he named the same, then he moved to the USA and became Richard Ford Shiner and had a son there that he called Richard Ford Shiner.

    The reason I know this is because I have a DNA match with a descendant of Richard's USA family.

    I have much more information, if required.
     
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  6. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Hi nice to hear from you, I am glad to have verification that Richard Forder Shiner and Richard Ford Shiner are the same person.

    I am related to his first wife Sarah Clark, so only his first set of children are related to me. I have not so far pursued Richard's second family in the US
     
  7. LShiner

    LShiner New Member

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    Hi, I am Louise ann shiner, great-granddaughter to Richard Ford or forder shiner. I found this in my grand uncle's profile: "Charles Joseph Shiner, 1894 - 1985
    Charles Joseph Shiner was born 1894, to Richard Ford Shiner and Marie Josephine De Shiner (born Costa).
    Richard was born in July 1859, in Beaminster, Dorset, England.
    Marie was born in 1863, in San Miguel, Portugal.
    Charles had 7 siblings: Emma F. Skiner, Sarah Ann Shiner then 5 other siblings.
    Charles married Viola Christine Shiner in1917, at age 23 in Massachusetts.

    I always expected that he absconded or was sentenced to emigrate because the Richard Ford shiners seem to be genetically a bunch of very bad, very violent people. Aren't you glad you're not related to that particular strain?

    Hope that helps.
     
  8. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Hi Louise
    thank you very much for the information
    I had hoped that deserting his first family was the worst of it, but as you say he does seem to have been a very unpleasant sort.
     
  9. LShiner

    LShiner New Member

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    Hi jon,

    I spoke with you a while back when I had a very short membership. Thankfully this one is free. My family tree is under Louise ann shiner, but I changed my first name to Lauren when I was young. So you may run into some confusion in tracking the trees or labeling. For genealogical purposes I am using the Louise although I try to note that I've changed it to Lauren. I'm so glad that you got the DNA connection from the forders to the Fords. That was making me insane. I know you've done extensive work on the trees and I'm pretty sure I messed up early on my tree because there were so many Richard Ford shiners. If you let me see your tree, I can check to see if I've misled you. I finally straightened out the dates of great-grandfather,
    grandfather, father to my brother.

    Obviously I don't check this too often, but mugsworthismycat is a master genealogist and she tracked it all down. I tried to post our family tree, but I kept posting bad information because I was confused about all the Richard Ford's. I tried to fix all the relatives and fill in all the cousins and somehow they would get corrupted or lost, so I gave up. I'm putting the family genealogy in your worthy hands.

    For the last four years I've been planning to come back to England and every year it seems to be something. Hopefully I'll be able to go this summer once we get the vaccine and I would like to meet you and your family, if that's okay with you. Thankfully I got the good genetics rather than the scoundrel and violent criminal genetics of Richard Ford shiner.
     
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  10. LShiner

    LShiner New Member

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    I found a USA immigration record for Richard Ford shiner in 1982 on a site run by the Mormons. They're info is usually pretty reputable. That would be why he cannot be found in your 1891 census. Sadly I lost track of that web link when I was moving between pages and I can't seem to find it again. I had to join and verify who I was before I could view any info. There are so many Richard shiners endorse it and we even have Richard shiners that were here before our civil war.
     
  11. LShiner

    LShiner New Member

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    I was always told that I was Welsh and Portuguese because my great-grandfather was Welsh and my greatgrandmother was from Portugal. I haven't been able to verify the Welsh connection. My mom's mom is Irish. My mom's father is Scotish, Irish & English.
     
  12. LShiner

    LShiner New Member

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    This is what I have pulled together:

    1853, Richard Forder banns announced March 6th in netherbury with Fanny shiner. 6 months later...

    1853, Richard Forder Shiner is born August 7 in North poorton beaminster Dorset where there is a workhouse and about nothing else. He takes a powder and leaves her with her now illegitimate child.

    Richard marries Sarah Clarke and has several children including another Richard Ford shiner who stays in England.

    1859, Fannie marries Alfred Hayward in Dorset. I gather she still has custody of 5 yr old Richard Ford Shiner.

    1882 Richard Forder Shiner emigrates to the United States, according to Mormon online record keeping. He shortens his name to Richard Ford shiner. He marries Marie Josephine de Costa and has Priscilla Charles and I forget the name of the third one, if not more, but that's all the Mormon site had where I ended.
     
  13. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    there is a link to Wales, as he lived there briefly when young, sisters Priscilla and Mary Elizabeth were born there. The family is in Bedwellty in the 1871 census
     
  14. GrannyBarb

    GrannyBarb Custodian of the Family Accounts

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    This family is in the 1900 Census for Chelsea, Suffolk Co, MA Ward 1, District 1550 at #95 Park St.
    Richard F Shiner, b. July, 1859, Married (but no wife on this report), 11 years. Immigrated in 1882, status AL, Occupation: General Jobbing.
    Three children - Priscilla (1890), Madeline (1891) and Charles (1893) - all born in Massachusetts, father b. England, mother b. Portugal.

    I'm logged into HeritageQuest via my local library's webpage. The records are pretty much the same as on Ancestry - which most libraries have free access on premises, if that helps you.

    Will keep looking as time permits.
     
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  15. GrannyBarb

    GrannyBarb Custodian of the Family Accounts

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    Okay. HeritageQuest census lookups (Ancestry search engine) was no help beyond 1900. I did see Richard in city directories around then, but nothing useful. Other listings in Boston - couldn't confirm are him.

    Since it's Massachusetts... I have a paid sub at NEHGS (americanancestors dot com) and bingo:
    1910 Census of Boston, Suffolk Co, MA on Warenton(?) Street:
    Richard Shiner, age 46, Married 28 yrs (still no wife in household), b. Wales, both parents b. Wales, immigrated 1882, status Al, repairer of real estate.
    Charles Shiner, age 16, single, b. Mass, father b. Wales, mother b. Portugal, galvinizer in Iron works.
    Also in household (and 1900 census as well) Mary Dinan, widow age 52 b. Ireland, and her son, Cristopher age 19, single, also a galvinizer in iron works.

    We will see if there is more...
     
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  16. GrannyBarb

    GrannyBarb Custodian of the Family Accounts

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    I'm not sure this is him:
    Richard P Shiner Date of death: Oct 29, 1910, age 52
    Place of Death / Residence: 63 Pleasant St, Boston, Mass
    Birthplace: Wales, G.B.
    Father's name and birthplace: -- Shiner, Wales, G.B.
    Mother's name and birthpalce: -- --, Wales, G.B.
    Cause of death: Heart disease
    Burial: Mt. Hope

    That's all for that site.
    Lunch time! Let me know if I need to look further. :)
     
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  17. LShiner

    LShiner New Member

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    The Richard Ford shiner that emigrated from England in 1881 or 82 is my great-grandfather. He was married to Marie Josephina DeCosta. My grandfather and father are Richard Ford shiner also. My grandfather married Gladys Freeman whose family is from Vermont. Somehow the family moved to the Derry area. Of my father's siblings, I only met two, Otis and Theodore. Charles and Robert were in the area, but I never met them. (If you knew how unpleasant my father was, you would understand why.) My father married Lorraine in Massachusetts. He moved the family to the family farm in Sandown Massachusetts when I was two and my brother was four. We then moved to Derry New Hampshire and then to Manchester New Hampshire. My father had three wives and four children, two with each wife. Two girls with the first wife and my brother and myself with the third wife, Lorraine. I moved to Louisiana when I was 18 and then to Tampa Florida when I was 30. No children. Hope that helps with your continuation of the shiner line in the states.
     
  18. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Thank you
     

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