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Roberts or Brooke?

Discussion in 'Kent' started by annabel, Feb 6, 2016.

  1. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    There's something funny going on with my ggg grandfather.
    My gg grandmother was Jane Elizabeth Roberts born in 1848 in Maidstone. There is a baptism where she is described as the daughter of William Brooke Roberts and Mary Roberts.
    She married in 1875 as Jane Elizabeth Brooke

    Her first sibling was Emma born 1833 as Emma Brooke Roberts
    The second was William Brooke born about 1834. There is a possible baptism in 1833 of a William to William Brooke and Mary Roberts. Subsequent children are baptised as Brooke Roberts or Roberts

    I think he is the William Brooke Roberts who married Mary Eldridge in 1831 in Rochester. He was born about 1805 in Maidstone
    in 1841 William and all the family are Brooke, a builder in Maidstone
    in 1851 he and all the family are Brooke Roberts at the same address HO107; Piece: 1617; Folio: 438; Page: 30
    In 1861 and 1871 they are back to Brooke.Class: RG 9; Piece: 502; Folio: 100; Page: 24
    He died as Brooke otherwise Brooke Roberts in 1878

    So the question is: what was his real name, how can I find his birth, and was there something significant about his dual names?
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2016
  2. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    May have been a lapse on the part of the baptising clergy that part of the name was left off [too much writing] & later maybe Elizabeth was distancing herself from the Family name.
    William Brooke Roberts, a bricklayor of Maidstone apperaed at 2, at the Bankrupts’ Court London.Dec. 30.
    Tuesday 27 December 1864 , South Eastern Gazette , Kent, England
     
  3. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    Possibly, but it keeps happening in other records too. Son William Brooke is never a Roberts, and when he leaves home, and he lives with 2 siblings for a bit, they are all Brooke. Plus dad is Brooke Roberts otherwise Brooke on his death
    Thank you. It's interesting that he is Brooke, a bricklayer in 1861, but after bankruptcy in 1871 he is Brooke a master builder employing 3 men! I'm not sure what's going on!
     
  4. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Not found any thing else other than the niece Mary Rance in 1851:
    HO107; Piece: 1617; Folio: 438; Page: 30
    ......
    Mary Rance
    Birth date 05 Nov 1823
    Baptism date 10 Jul 1824
    Denomination Wesleyan Methodist
    Pts: Thomas Francis +Ann
    County London
    Archive reference TNA/RG/4/4388
    ......................................................
    Thomas Francis Rance
    England Marriages, 1538–1973
    marriage:29 April 1817 Saint Luke Old Street, Finsbury, London, England
    spouse: Ann Eldridge
    .......................
    Still chasing Charlotte James who appears to have been the dtr of George -a baker & Elizabeth not born in county.Bapt'd Westminster
    possibles:
    1841 Elizabeth 60, Susannah 30, Charlotte 20. Reginold 20, a surgeon.
    HO107/687/9/13 book3

    Sorry have to leave off now & none of this has helped with the early William Brooke.
     
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  5. Lusmum

    Lusmum Active Member

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    Is it possible William Brooke and Elizabeth Roberts were not married? I have one who was born illegitimate and named Louise Knight Lane...Knight was a second forename...when she married she put Louisa Lane Knight as a double barrelled surname ...her sister also illegitimate without Knight in her name...married as Harriett Knight Lane a further sister was a witness and signed as Elizabeth Lane Knight but only Louisa had Knight on her birth certificate...the other 2 were just Lane...doesn't end there...Louisa's children's birth Certs some had her maiden name as Knight and some as Lane...just throwing it out there as I also have another case where a rellie born before parents married sometime used his father surname and sometimes his mother on census...
     
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  6. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    So his name was William Brooke Roberts on his marriage to Mary Eldridge in 1831.

    Could it be that William Brooke Roberts was actually born William Brooke, illegitimate to a Miss Brooke. She subsequently marries a Roberts. William Brooke then has Roberts added to his name. Thereafter, uses the name William Brooke Roberts except when he chooses to use just plain William Brook.

    They don't make it easy do they :eek:
     
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  7. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    Thanks everyone. All these are possible. But I have nothing to support any idea at the moment. Brooke and Roberts marry quite often unfortunately, nothing stands out to me :(
     
  8. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    I've been revisiting this post, and I have discovered that Mary Rance's mother Ann was the sister of William Brooke Robert's wife Mary. It was hard to spot as Mary's birth was wrongly transcribed as Wray, I would never have spotted it without following up Ann, so thank you @Ma-dotcom.
    All this was found in the non conformist registers, they were Weslyan.

    I wonder if that means that the marriage of William Brooke Roberts and Mary Eldridge is in the non conformist marriage registers, where they might give more detail as they do with baptisms. It was 1831 in Maidstone, her father was George Wray Eldridge. I can't get anywhere though, I don't know how good the non conformist marriage registers are on Ancestry. Can anyone suggest a better place to look?
     
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  9. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    They were married in St Margaret, Rochester (Anglican) on 29th January 1831
    upload_2016-3-30_20-6-55.png
     
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  10. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    Thank you. Didn't they have to be "officially" registered in a C of E church, even if marrying in non conformist chapel? (clutching at straws)
     
  11. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Well it says on the marriage that they were married in that church after Banns. Some non conformist churches did have a license to marry.

    In other words I don't know :oops:
     
  12. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One

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    This wont help you now but if you research the Eldriges and are stuck try Battle in Sussex, quite a number there, and possibly Canterbury Kent.
    My wife's Eldridges currently start at 1748 in Battle, 1806 to 1809 in Canterbury, then in 1814 they are back in Battle.
    The parents of the last of my wife's Eldridge line, James Eldridge and Mary Wood, were married in a registry office in the Camberwell district but raised children in Battle, it seems Mary was well liked. ;) :D

    There is a guy named Robert G Eldridge who has done a lot of work on the Eldridge name, probably got his email address somewhere..
     
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  13. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    You could be right. The marriage Act of 6th and 7th Wm. 4, cap. 85.
    Code:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_Act_1836
    They were married in 1831 which pre-dates the act.
     
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  14. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    Ooh ... have I found a clue??

    William Brooke died 5th Oct 1878. His probate says Winchester Place, Maidstone, aged 74. I found the death registration

    Wife Mary Brooke died 3rd Oct 1878 according to death and burials. In a newspaper death notice Mary Brooks died 28th Sept at Winchester Place. Aged 68, 2 years out

    In another death notice, James Brooks died 5th Oct at Winchester Place, aged 74.
    I haven't found a death registration for this person so far.

    So is James actually William with another name? Or is this a potential brother? There might have been something contagious at Winchester Place?
     
  15. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    The only GRO reg I have found is: James Brooks age 66, Dec qrt 1878, Maidstone.
     
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  16. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    This being the first really new bit of info, I just had to get the certificate. It just came - it wasn't the right one. This one died in Barming, near Maidstone.
    So who was the James who died in Winchester Place? Although I'm not certain, I think it's probably not his son James, I think I have him in later censuses

    Just to be sure, I got William's death as well. It was the right one, as plain William Brooke, who died of nothing contagious. The informant was Elizabeth Finch who left her mark, and lived at 3 Carriden Street (not his daughter Jane Elizabeth Fincham, who lived in London and could write). No idea if she is relevant.

    So can anyone help me find out who James was, or was he William under another name in the newspaper?
     
  17. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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  18. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    8(:-)Total fluke - I found the answer!

    Whilst looking at other Brookes in the family, and having so many other William's unaccounted for I was just idly looking at wills of any William Brooke. I chanced upon one who died in Maidstone, and his friend was a Samuel Roberts.

    So reading through a very long will, I came across this William leaving money to William Brooke Roberts, his natural born son! It gives his baptism date, place, and how he was registered - William Roberts son of William and Hannah Roberts. I never would have thought of the dad being named after the mother.
     
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