Share my headache.

Discussion in 'General Family History Queries' started by Amle, Mar 11, 2019.

  1. Amle

    Amle Well-Known Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    630
    Likes Received:
    1,007
    Location:
    Sutton, Surrey
    I am confused, nothing unusual there but this time I am doubly confused.
    I have a relative his name is George Cooper born 1873. His parents were George Cooper and Mary Eamour, they lived in Wokingham Berkshire. I think I have followed young George through, he served in the Boer Wars and then settled in Stratton, near Wiltshire, he died in 1943.
    So far so good.
    It is George's wife that is a problem. Her name was Emma Lilly Smith born in Wokingham in 1883/1884 I can find no birth or marriage record for her.
    All the children of George and Emma give the mothers maiden name as Smith. The only census (1911) I have for her suggests the couple were married in 1906.
    Now this little problem would not be that unusual but I see a few people have identified Emma Lilly as George Coopers sister. Yes he did have a sister with that name (Emma Lilly) born at that time!
    If I could find something on Emma Lilly Smith before the 1911 census I could logical explain things, that they are different people.
    Any suggestions would be very grateful.
    With thanks Elizabeth
     
  2. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    4,549
    Likes Received:
    17,394
    Location:
    Northamptonshire, England.
    Well, I'll be blowed if I can find her birth or their marriage. :(
     
    Amle likes this.
  3. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

    Offline
    Messages:
    3,951
    Likes Received:
    10,016
    Location:
    Middlesex
    Is he the widowed George Cooper on the 1939 reg. living in Oxford Rd. Highworth Reg District. with 2 sons, a daughter and a redacted entry?

    Where did the name Lilly come from?

    I can only see 7 Emma Smith births 1883 +/- 2 years in Berkshire and none have the second name Lilly
     
    Ma-dotcom, Amle and Daft Bat like this.
  4. Amle

    Amle Well-Known Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    630
    Likes Received:
    1,007
    Location:
    Sutton, Surrey
    I don't think there was a marriage, as on George Cooper military documents (WW1) the wife is recorded as Emma Cooper, the children and their dates of birth are stated, under marriage there is nothing. Although I may be reading it wrong.
    I haven't yet sent for any certificates, I was hoping to get the marriage one but it doesn't look like it.
    The name Emma Lilly comes up in the daughters US Social Security Claim (Mothers Name Emma Lilly Smith). Now I am beginning to wonder when did Emma Lilly Smith die as on the 1939 Register George is recorded as married. I have only just seen this!
    It is strange that I can't find any records for the real Emma Lilly Cooper (George's sister) after 1901. It's time to order certificates but which ones will be best?
     
  5. Amle

    Amle Well-Known Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    630
    Likes Received:
    1,007
    Location:
    Sutton, Surrey
    Yes MollyMay:)
     
    Ma-dotcom and MollyMay like this.
  6. Amle

    Amle Well-Known Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    630
    Likes Received:
    1,007
    Location:
    Sutton, Surrey
    :confused::confused::confused::confused:
    I am making mistakes here As George is recorded as widowed on the 1939 Register. I was getting my M(Male) muddled with Married, see I started doubting myself!!:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
     
    Ma-dotcom, MollyMay and Bay Horse like this.
  7. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    4,549
    Likes Received:
    17,394
    Location:
    Northamptonshire, England.
    There is a death registered in the Swindon registration district, September quarter of an Emma L COOPER aged 50, which ties in with her having been born about 1884. Volume 5a, page 3.
     
    Amle and MollyMay like this.
  8. Blackmogs

    Blackmogs Moderator. General Dogs(cats)body. Staff Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    1,335
    Likes Received:
    4,171
    Location:
    Kent, the Garden of England
    I have had a good old snoop around and one website has a family of Smiths living in Wokingham in 1901. There is an Emma, the dob is slightly different from the 1911.
    RG13
    Piece number 1155
    Folio 17
    Page 26

    I wonder whether this could be her. The other possibility but unlikely is that Smith was Emma's married name from a previous marriage, if that was the case though the mother's maiden name on the GRO index would be different.
     
    Amle likes this.
  9. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

    Offline
    Messages:
    3,094
    Likes Received:
    5,047
    Location:
    London, England
    I have something great aunt, who was born illegitimate as X, her mother then married a Mr Y. When the aunt married she used the name X, however children were registered with mmn as Y. Just a thought ...
     
    Ma-dotcom and Amle like this.
  10. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

    Offline
    Messages:
    3,951
    Likes Received:
    10,016
    Location:
    Middlesex
    Nor can I :headbang:
     
    Murfomurf and Amle like this.
  11. Murfomurf

    Murfomurf Active Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    125
    Likes Received:
    193
    Location:
    Adelaide, South Australia
    Just suppose that Emma Lilly Smith was born Lily Emma Smith but she liked Lilly or she called herself that after meeting George Cooper to help distinguish between herself and his sister in conversation?

    Looking up Lily Emma Smith around the early 1880s gave me these from the GRO:

    SMITH, LILY EMMA HORSELL
    GRO Reference: 1882 J Quarter in STROUD Volume 06A Page 341

    SMITH, LILY EMMA TURNER
    GRO Reference: 1881 D Quarter in MUTFORD & LOTHINGLAND Volume 04A Page 824

    SMITH, LILY EMMA SARAH CLARK
    GRO Reference: 1881 S Quarter in CALNE Volume 05A Page 77

    I wouldn't stress over the birth place reported in the Census- all sorts of answers were given (or assumed). Try these out for size, have a look at the Census listings for the families and see if anything pops out.

    Also there is a marriage in Bethnal Green for a George Cooper- he may have been in London as a returning soldier. Also Lily's name may have been prissy-ed up for the marriage document as Lilian. I know several of my relatives have had their names formalised by the vicar - from Jim to James, Lily to Lilian and Melly to Amelia.

    Marriages Sep 1910
    Cooper George A Bethnal G 1c 261
    Smith Lilian E Bethnal G 1c 261

    Food for thought anyway. :)
     
    Ma-dotcom, Amle, Half Hour and 4 others like this.
  12. Amle

    Amle Well-Known Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    630
    Likes Received:
    1,007
    Location:
    Sutton, Surrey
    Thank you Murfomurf
    I have to think of all possibilities and everything is appreciated I have been looking at what you suggested and will keep it in mind, who knows.:)
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice