SKINNER family

Discussion in 'General Family History Queries' started by mugwortismy cat, Jun 10, 2013.

  1. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    someone had better slap me if I am too tired to make sense o_O

    Maria (CLARK) BARTRAM (c1829 Weston) from my earlier post here married George SKINNER

    I have been looking at the family of their eldest child Alfred born Oct-Dec 1850 in Sotterley, Suffolk (there's a lot of trouble spelling that in censuses)

    He marries Sarah Ann (sometimes Annie) RANSOME (b 1850 Kings Lynn) in 1872

    The first 3 children are born in Middlesbrough; Florence Bartram (1873-1960), Alfred William (1875), and Lily Agnes (1876)

    The next 4 are born in Richmond, Surrey; William Kennedy Ransome (1880-1960), Percy Bartram (1884), Ethel Maud (1886-1953), and Gladys Irene (1892)

    Problems start with the 1901 census and continue into 1911; in 1901 after a while I found Sarah Ann as Annie, no longer in Richmond but in Sutton, Surrey. She is noted as married but there's no sign of Alfred senior ... only the 3 youngest children are with her. They are still with her in 1911 in Wandsworth now, Sarah Ann (as Annie) now noted as a widow --- no suitable death for Alfred found as yet.

    Florence Bartram was already married --so everything fine there.

    Alfred William -- completely lost; there's perhaps a chance I found him in 1911 but his birthplace is down as York -- not sure

    Lily Agnes -- no sign in 1901 or 1911, she marries in Perivale in Aug 1911

    William Kennedy Ransome (how can you lose a man with a name like that?) no sign of him but he marries in 1906 in Hampstead. He marries either Elizabeth Hilda RODGER or Katie HUNTER; couldn't find him in 1911 but I did track someone who (I hope) was the other groom (reasonably uncommon name) with a spouse called Elizabeth Hilda. So I decided he married Katie -- I don't know what happened to her but when he dies his estate is handled by brother Percy and Percy's wife Kathleen Mary. (Extra Problem Alert) Kathleen Mary is not the woman Percy married in Sep 1911, that was Marjorie. I cannot find a second marriage for him.

    To recap my lost and missing SKINNERs are:
    1. Alfred's death
    2. Alfred William in 1901 and 1911
    3. Lily Agnes in 1901 and 1911
    4. William Kennedy Ransome in 1901 and 1911
    5. Katie -- what happened, divorce, death, separation? is she even the right one?
    6. Percy's wives -- where's Marjorie gone, where did Kathleen pop up from?

    I've been staring at them for too long and have gone bug-eyed and mush-brained.

    So, that's a lot to ask I realise that. But when I wake up later you'll have it all sorted for me, right?;)

    Christel
     
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  2. Doug

    Doug Administrator. The Main Man. Staff Member

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    Unable to find them either. I would suggest getting the marriage certificate and will for WKR Skinner as a start.
     
  3. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Until 1928 Percy Bartram Skinner, Marjory, 263 Clapham Rd Lambeth, Alice Catherine Laskey & Arthur Bartrum Laskey 265 Clapham rd Lambeth.
    Also qt 263- Daniel & Rebecca Mangan
    poss.
    Deaths Sep 1930
    Skinner Marjorie 40- Marylebone 1a 487
    Marriages Sep 1911
    Laskey Marjorie (b. 1893?) Lambeth 1d 705

    p.s.
    Sarah may have been a widow but still considered herself married as in 'not a spinster or loose woman', & if Alfred took a walk for whatever reason, even an accident somewhere, she was still married in her opinion.
     
  4. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Just missed curfew,
    On his death at Brighton General Hospital in 1965, Percy had been living at same villa address as was his brother William in 1960 with Kathleen Mary.
     
  5. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Doug

    Thanks for looking. I will dig around a bit more and bear that in mind for payday
     
  6. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Is that the electoral registers? Laskey was Marjorie's maiden name, she was born Dec 1889 so the 1930 death looks likely ... Arthur Bartrum Laskey and Alice Catherine (Beer) are Marjorie's parents
     
  7. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Thank you, I'll have another dig around for a second marriage
     
  8. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Good grief Wendy how did you do it?, even with what you told me I struggled to find it! why is he suddenly called Percival? --- I don't know, he must have gone up in the world!

    Maybe that's why I can't find his marriage to Kathleen. Going back to try again
     
  9. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    yeah there it is Jun 1935 Bromley, PERCIVAL B Skinner m. Kathleen M Sayer

    So latest update (I can lose #6):)
    To recap my lost and missing SKINNERs are:
    1. Alfred's death
    2. Alfred William in 1901 and 1911
    3. Lily Agnes in 1901 and 1911
    4. William Kennedy Ransome in 1901 and 1911
    5. Katie -- what happened, divorce, death, separation? is she even the right one?
    6. Percy's wives -- where's Marjorie gone, where did Kathleen pop up from?
     
  10. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    There you go, isn't this fun?
    Yes.
    Beats the heck out of me, just hanging in there, unable to concentrate on where I should have been checking stuff
    You see, I didn't check under Percival for the marriage, well done you!
     
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  11. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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  12. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    I'm assuming you are referring to this census, Christel? RG14 P 2121. The original image says Middlesboro [sic] Yorks, he's with wife Ida Olivia.

    I'd say he's definitely yours as both he and Ida Olivia were witnesses to Lily Agnes' marriage.
     
  13. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Thank you Mealymoo:)

    I went back and looked at it this morning, and with a slghtly clearer head remembered that I hadn't looked at the image! I have submitted a correction for his place of birth. (I hadn't checked the witnesses on Lily's marriage either, just the father to be sure it was her -- I'm getting sloppy!:( )

    So that problem is off the list --- but he is still missing in 1901. Nor can I find a suitable death ... and when Ida dies she is Ida Olivia Skinner-Heald:confused: ... I can't work out why, is nothing straightforward?
     
  14. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Do you think this can be Lily's husband? He says he's a Professional singer on the marriage cert.

    http://en.
    wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Louis_Bradfield

    Now I know it says his wife is Jessie B(arbara) Best -- but she died in 1910.

    And I found this in 1911; RG14; Piece: 17930; Schedule Number: 73.

    If this is Lily she has changed her name to Lilian (along the lines of Percy and Percival!?) and the place of birth is wrong; but bearing in mind that they are not actually married at this point ... and have a child, is she disguising herself a little?

    If Walter Bradfield is W. Louis Bradfield then he died in Brighton in 1919 -- unfortunately I cannot find a Probate to see if it mentions Lily/Lilian --- but a Lilian A Bradfield of the right age dies in Hove in 1967.
     
  15. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    Hello, just noticed this because of the Walter Louis Bradfield connection and possible second wife and new son. Walter's son Edmund who was also an actor married my aunt Emily Skinner in London, father John mother Helen. I have to say though that I have not got your names in my tree at the moment, but it is a strange co insidence. Perhaps these names might come up as you search
     
  16. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Hi Annabel

    I am still trying to work it all out, but it seems to fit ... unless you already have Walter Louis Bradfield elsewhere in 1911 --- that would scupper things :eek:

    Would appreciate your thoughts though. Do you think it is him in 1911? What about the marriage? it has professional singer as occupation, and William (deceased) but no occupation given.
     
  17. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    Well I had not got Walter in 1911 before. His other 2 children Edmund and Barbara seem to be staying with their uncle Percy Cox and family so that explains their absence. The marriage looks good, but none of the Skinner names are familiar to me I'm afraid. Walter is the father in law to my family research, so I don't know so much about him. But Edmund married his Skinner only 6 years later in 1917
     
  18. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Thanks Annabel

    Have only just started to look at the Skinner family; and have only been working on the oldest of 7 so far (5 boys), and one of them is John, so you never know ;)

    i suppose it may just be a coincidence -- Skinner seems to be a fairly common name. But just in case I will take a look at John today and get back to you.

    Christel
     
  19. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Hi Annabel,

    Emily is definitely not the daughter of Alfred's brother John ... so we aren't cousins after all:(

    However, I haven't looked into the family of George (Alfred and John's father) and there may be a link there. That might take me a bit of time though o_O
     
  20. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Annabel

    I have been digging but cannot find a obvious link between your SKINNER family and mine. Obviously they are linked in a round-a-bout way by marrying BRADFIELDs but not related.

    I suppose it is just one one those coincidences, which seem to happen, I've already had Percy Bartram SKINNERs father-in-law being called Arthur Bartrum LASKEY after all.
     

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