Telling lies ?

Discussion in 'Ask The Experts' started by Philb-c, Oct 9, 2017.

  1. Philb-c

    Philb-c Well-Known Member

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    Amelia CHURCHER, b:Oct/Nov/Dec 1859, Burnley, Lancashire. Daughter of Zacariah William CHURCHER and Amelia FITZGERALD.

    There is a marriage of "a" Amelia CHURCHER to William Henry FENTIMAN during 1877 in Keighley, Yorkshire (volume: 9a, page:292)(no cert).
    So far I have not found a divorce or confirmed death for William Henry FENTIMAN with a wife Amelia.

    Baptism: 6 Feb 1878, Zachariah, child of William Henry FENTIMAN and Amelia.
    Burial: 7 Aug 1878, Zachariah, age 7 months.

    Baptism: 2 Jun 1880, Mary Ann, child of Amelia FENTIMAN (father not shown) ?
    Burial: 14 Jul 1880, Mary Ann FENTIMAN, age 2 months.

    1881 census. Amelia FENTIMAN, 22, married, living with her mother and sister (no sign of husband William).

    There is a marriage: 20 Sep 1884, Richard DIXSON to Amelia FENTIMAN “26, spinster, bride’s father not named” (cert on-line).
    I am pretty convinced that Amelia FENTIMAN was actually Amelia CHURCHER and that could be why her father wasn’t named ?
    Do you think it possible (or even fairly common) in those days to lie when marrying ?
     
  2. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

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    In a word, yes.

    Also, clerks could get it wrong from time to time.

    And, another thing to bear in mind is that you had the Leeds Liverpool Canal running between Burnley and Keighley - a lot of my ancestors seemed to move between the two towns for work.
     
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  3. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Not uncommon. Remember, the Minister/Registrar just went with what they were told..... unless they knew otherwise ie they had known the bride or groom since they were young.
     
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  4. Philb-c

    Philb-c Well-Known Member

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    It looks to me like something happened between Amelia and William after 1878 but before 1880 - why no father on the baptism ? Then, of course, Amelia is back with her mother in 1881 but still married.
     
  5. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

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    I have a death and a marriage cert for a Martha Robinson. Her marriage to John, a widower, gives her as a spinster of nearly 50, and her father bears the name and occupation of her first husband. This is something that has driven me mad for a number of years, particularly as I can't find a death for husband (1) - they are my 3rd great grandparents. John Robinson was their next door neighbour; his father had an unusual forename and is correct on the marriage.

    I am convinced the clerk messed up the register entry, and given that neither was literate they'd be none the wiser.
     
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  6. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

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    I can't seem to find William either during those two years. The way the baptism is written would suggest, to me, that Amelia is still legally married to William but the child isn't his. I would expect it to say Amelia and William (deceased) if that were the case.

    What's Amelia's given occupation? I can't make it out under the ink splodge.
     
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  7. Philb-c

    Philb-c Well-Known Member

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    Amelia is a cotton winder, sometimes a cotton weaver, it's looking like William (b: abt. 1852) was a mechanic.
     
  8. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

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    Is he the chap in the Keighley Petty Sessions, 1875 (Bradford Daily Telegraph, 30th Jan)?
     
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  9. arthurk

    arthurk Well-Known Member

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    They also had roads.... ;)

    Because of the hills in between, the distance by canal from Keighley to Burnley is around 35 miles. The current main road is about 21 miles, and you can get another couple off that if you go on minor roads.

    One of my lines is from the parish of Kildwick: if you're heading from Keighley, this is where the main road leaves the Aire valley that the canal follows and heads up over the hill towards Colne and Burnley. It's apparent from the birthplaces found in censuses, and the same surnames occurring on both sides of the hills/boundary, that there was a lot of coming and going in both directions along that route.
     
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  10. Philb-c

    Philb-c Well-Known Member

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    The only one I have seen so far is "feloniously committing an unnatural offence" but that was Sussex so probably another chap.
     
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  11. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

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    I meant that work was to be found because of its promixity to the canal. :) I have ancestors in Kildwick too.

    Phil, this chap committed an 'aggravated assault' on a train between Shipley and Bingley and was given six months.

    I may be entirely on the wrong track, but I'm wondering if he was in the dock again c.1800 and Amelia has remarried in Burnley. 1911 Census has her as a midwife, which is quite different to a weaver or carder.
     
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  12. Philb-c

    Philb-c Well-Known Member

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    Mmm, I marked the 1911 only as a "possible" due to the midwife bit, but both the 1901 and 1911 address is 53 Argyle Street and the husband and son also match.

    Perhaps they were not so hot on qualifications back then ?
     
  13. arthurk

    arthurk Well-Known Member

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    I was going to reply to this with something about my family, but as it seemed to be hijacking Phil's thread I've started a new one here.
     
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  14. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    If anyone is on Find my past this may come up, but otherwise on Fold 3 is this. A possible explanation?

    UK, Military Deserters, 1812-1927
    Wm. H Fentiman
    Age: 25
    Birth Year: Abt 1855
    Birth Place: Keighley, Yorkshire
    Desertion Date: 28 Jun 1880
    Desertion Place: Halifax
    Publication Date: 13 Aug 1880
    Regimental Number: 5995
    Military Corps: 6th West Yorkshire
     
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  15. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Wiki Tree
    William Henry Fentiman, son of Mary Caroline Fentiman, born 1853.
    1861 living in Coney Lane, Keighley with just his mother who was a cotton weaver, unmarried. At age 8 he was already working as a bobbin setter.
    1871. Age 18 Living with his mother and is a mechanic.
    30/1/1875 William found guilty of aggravated assault on 13 year old Clara Moorehouse of Birchall Lane, Bradford while on a train from Bradford between Shipley and Bingley. He was sentenced to 6 months imprisonment.
    There is also a marriage in York in 1895 of a William Henry Fentiman to either Ada Darwin or Isabel Wadsworth Gardner.
     
  16. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Not necessarily. He sounds a bit nasty.
     
  17. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    This is interesting because on Lancashire OPC, all entries, all parishes, for Fentiman, the very next after this marriage is the baptism of William Joseph Fentiman, father William Henry Fentiman and Sarah. William Henry is a sewing machine maker.....
     
  18. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    How about:
    William Fenteman 1909 Leeds age 54 (c1855) 9b 279
     
  19. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    William Fentiman 1901 Census
    Caroline Fentiman head 68 Leeds
    William Fentiman son 46 Leeds Mechanic
    Residence Cross John Street
    Christ Church
    South East Leeds
    Schedule Type 21
    Page Number 12
    This is probably the William Fentiman who assaulted the 13 year old girl and died in 1909 in Leeds. Whether he is the same one as your William...if he is one and the same then he sure got around.
     
  20. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

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    Good heavens, this has certainly begun to unravel since last night.

    A good find. Nothing on FMP that I could see. So, he deserted. :eek:
     

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