The Battle of Bouvines

Discussion in 'Other Conflicts' started by Old Stoneface, Jul 27, 2014.

  1. Old Stoneface

    Old Stoneface Well-Known Member

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    The Battle of Bouvines was fought on this day, 27th July, 1214, a mere eight hundred years ago this year.

    Despite the first steps towards human rights in the third century B.C. in Mesopotamia whenever a new king started his reign, as with the clay Cyrus Cylinder of 539 B.C. laying down certain decrees of Cyrus the Great of Persia, the outcome of the Battle of Bouvines was key in this issue. It led to Magna Carta and thus to the Declaration of Independence by the newly born USA, the D├ęclaration des droits de l'homme et du citoyen in France in 1789 and thus the United Nations' Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

    http://www.
    bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-28484146

    Should today be a day of celebration?
     
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  2. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    I'll accept a day off ;)
     
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  3. Bonzo Dog

    Bonzo Dog Still the Mad Scientist?

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    Wonder what the outcome would have been had we come first, and not second
     
  4. Old Stoneface

    Old Stoneface Well-Known Member

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    On a Sunday? o_O :rolleyes: :confused:
     
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  5. Old Stoneface

    Old Stoneface Well-Known Member

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    "We" being the English, the Flemish, the Count of Boulogne and the Holy Roman Empire, I take it?

    To each his own: the English were fighting to get back the lands belonging to King John's mother, Eleanor of Aquitaine, and those of his father Henry II; the Flemish wanted to get free of French dominion; Otto, the excommunicated Holy Roman Emperor, wanted to be King of the Romans (Germans), having forfeited the Pope's support in favour of one of his brothers, Philip (both of them had been elected king by separate parts of the Empire on the death of Henry VI); and Renaud of Boulogne appears to have been looking out for number one, but I might have missed something there - history is complicated. :confused:

    I don't think you can say "had we come first, and not second" - it was hardly what was going on in Brazil recently, where there was even a fight for third place (NOT that I know anything about it, as it's anathema to me). In a battle, surely, you win or you lose.

    Had the Allied Forces won in 1214, King Philippe II Auguste would have been left with a decidedly truncated Gaul/France.
    John would have won back Normandy, Brittany, Anjou, Maine, Touraine, Picardy, and Aquitaine, meaning the entire western side of France. Otto would have taken the east, and the Flemish would have carved out a chunk in the north-west, along with Renaud of Boulogne probably.

    Bonzo, I hope this satisfies you (and doesn't get anyone else's back up for some reason). It's taken me about an hour and a half to write this post, with reading and consultations added in!
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2014
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  6. Old Stoneface

    Old Stoneface Well-Known Member

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    Bouvines is celebrating madly this year, given that it's the octocentenary. This is a link to their site, which, necessarily is in French, but I thought I'd give it all the same:

    http://www
    bouvines2014.fr/la-bataille/
     
  7. Bonzo Dog

    Bonzo Dog Still the Mad Scientist?

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    My quip about us coming 2nd was in the same vein as the "France 1 England 0" header on the BBC's News page. History is very much a hard science, with a soft centre.
     
  8. Old Stoneface

    Old Stoneface Well-Known Member

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    I didn't see that one, so I didn't get the joke :( sorry!

    I think history's more like a plate of spaghetti, and your interpretation depends on which end of which strand you start pulling on first. :confused:
     
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  9. Bonzo Dog

    Bonzo Dog Still the Mad Scientist?

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    Sorry you went to so much trouble
     
  10. Old Stoneface

    Old Stoneface Well-Known Member

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    No problemo, amigo :)
     

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