Thomas Moore Esq

Discussion in 'Radnorshire' started by Chimp, Dec 15, 2014.

  1. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

    Online
    Messages:
    6,151
    Likes Received:
    17,337
    Location:
    Knighton, Powys, Wales
    Looking for information on Thomas Moore Esq of Old Hall Llanfihangel Rhydithon, Radnorshire.

    He was baptised on 2nd July 1796 in Llanfihangel Rhydithon, Radnorshire

    He died on 8th June 1872 and is buried in St Michael's Church, Llanfihangel Rhydithon, Radnorshire

    Actually Llanfihangel means St Michael's Church in Welsh.

    His monument reads;

    Erected by his only surviving brother,
    to the memory of RICHARD MOORE of Presteign,
    third son of JOHN and ANNE MOORE,
    of Old Hall, in this Parish.
    He died the 11th of February 1860, in the
    69th year of his age.
    Also of THOMAS MOORE Esqr.
    of OLD HALL,
    who died June 8th 1872
    Aged 75.
    NOTHING IN MY HAND I BRING: SIMPLY TO THY CROSS I CLING

    Was Thomas the brother of Richard therefore making John & Ann his parents?

    I don't think Thomas ever married.

    He bequeathed the town clock to Knighton Radnorshire.
     
  2. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

    Online
    Messages:
    6,151
    Likes Received:
    17,337
    Location:
    Knighton, Powys, Wales
    I know there is a will for a John Moore of Leamihangel (Llanfihangel) with wife Ann dated 10th January 1817 on Ancestry but it can not be saved as it has not been indexed and besides I wouldn't be able to read it :oops:
     
  3. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

    Offline
    Messages:
    3,436
    Likes Received:
    5,766
    Location:
    London, England
    This is the last Will and Testament of me John Moore of Old Hall in the Parish of Leanvihangel Rhydithon in the County of Radnor Esq

    died 1817 ... if you want to have a go it isn't in the usual PCC script and at first glance is not too complicated to read ... else you can wait until I get back from work ;)
     
    Chimp likes this.
  4. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

    Online
    Messages:
    6,151
    Likes Received:
    17,337
    Location:
    Knighton, Powys, Wales
    Hi Muggy, I did try reading it but I just can't get the hang of the way it's written :oops:. Seems a strange hobby to take up when you can't read old documents :rolleyes:

    Thank you very much, I'll wait till you get home :) I will be out nearly all day too.
     
    mugwortismy cat likes this.
  5. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

    Offline
    Messages:
    3,436
    Likes Received:
    5,766
    Location:
    London, England
    It says at the end of the fourth (!:eek:) page

    Proved at London ... by the oaths of Richard Moore [of Presteign] and Thomas Moore [of Old Hall in Llanvihangel Rhydithon] the sons ...

    I will do the whole thing for you ... but it may take some time :confused:
     
    Flora, Ma-dotcom and Chimp like this.
  6. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

    Online
    Messages:
    6,151
    Likes Received:
    17,337
    Location:
    Knighton, Powys, Wales
    Brilliant, so Thomas was Richards brother and they were his parents. Thank you soooo much.

    Take your time, I have all the time in the world......... I hope :confused:
     
    Ma-dotcom and mugwortismy cat like this.
  7. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

    Offline
    Messages:
    3,327
    Likes Received:
    14,584
    Location:
    North Devon, England
    I've had a very quick look at the will and the children mentioned (or the ones which I saw mentioned) are Richard, Thomas, John and Elizabeth.

    I'll leave the whole thing to Muggy, as I have to go out too ;)

    Ann
     
    Ma-dotcom, Chimp and mugwortismy cat like this.
  8. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

    Online
    Messages:
    6,151
    Likes Received:
    17,337
    Location:
    Knighton, Powys, Wales
    Thank you Ann, so we're up to 4 children now. Wish Thomas' will was on line but I can only find the probate thing that says who and where his will was proved.
     
  9. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

    Offline
    Messages:
    3,436
    Likes Received:
    5,766
    Location:
    London, England
    I've had a quick run through of the first page ... I have put in bold all parts where I entirely failed or am unsure ... thought it best to plough on through to the end and do the finessing later (hope that is OK) ... or maybe others can help fill in the gaps ;)? Hope to have another installment tomorrow, but you may have to wait until Wednesday.

    This is the last Will and Testament of me
    John Moore of the Old Hall in the Parish of Leanvihangel Rhydithon
    in the County of Radnor Esq first I will direct and desire that all my
    just debts funeral Expences Also Expences of proving this my will be
    in the first place paid and discharged by my Executors hereinafter named
    out of my personal Estate but in case my said personal Estate shall be
    insuffiecent [sic] to satisfy the same then I do hereby charge my said real
    Estate with the payment of so much of my said debts as my said ~
    personal Estate will be insufficient to pay and after payment ~
    thereof I give and bequeath unto my son Richard Moore the sum of
    ffive hundred pounds to be paid him by my Executors within the space of ~
    twelve months next after my decease I also give devise & bequeath unto
    my said son Richard Moore all I hold my Estates called Ainveon(?) by ~
    the several [???] of Dwydd & Highstone now in the occupation of ~
    Aaron Jones & Edward Thomas as Tenants to me situate in the Parish
    of Llandegley(?) in the said County of Radnor to hold the same and every ~
    part thereof with the appurts unto my said Son Richard Moore his
    heirs and assigns for ever I also give & bequeath unto my said Son Richard
    Moore his heirs and [the rest of this line crossed through]
    [beginning of this line crossed through] assigns the for simple and in [????]
    of and in all that my [????] farm and Lands called Trevorgan with
    the appurts situate in the Parish of Leanvihangel Rhydithon in the ~
    County aforesaid to hold the same and every part thereof unto my said
    Son Richard Moore his heirs and assigns for ever I also give & bequeath
    unto my Son Thomas Moore the Sum of one thousand four hundred ~
    pounds to be paid him by my Executors within twelve months next after ~
    my decease if he shall have attained the age of twenty one years I also
    give devise and bequeath unto my said Son Thomas Moore all [???]
    my Estates called and known by the names of Newhouse ~
    Polly [????] and Saint Denis(?) otherwise John ONorris's now in ~
    the occupation of John Dyke & David Griffiths as Tenant to me situate
    in the Parish of Llanvihangel Rhydion in the County of Radnor
    aforesaid to hold the same every part thereof unto my said Son Thomas
    Moore his heirs and assigns for ever I also give devise and bequeath
    unto my said Son Thomas Moore & to his heirs & assigns the for simple
    & inheritance of and in all these my [???] ffarm Lands and
    Premises called Graigil Baily Gwynne with the appurts situate in
    the Parish of Llanvihangel Rhydithon in the County of Radnor aforesaid
    to hold the same and every part thereof unto my said Son Thomas Moore
    his heirs and assigns for ever I also give devise and bequeath unto my
    son John Moore the Sum of one thousand pounds to be paid him
    by my Executors within six months next after my decease I also give
    devise & bequeath unto my said Son John Moore for & during the
    term of His natural life one clear yearly rent(?) charge or Sum of
    forty pounds payable half yearly at Michaelmas & Lady Day in ~
    every year the first payment to be made on which of those days
    that shall first happen [erased] after my decease but in case the said rent(?)
    charge of Sum of fforty pounds shall be in arrear or unpaid for the
    space of forty days next after either the days of payment [??]
    hereby reserve a power of [??] and [??] for the same upon my
    Estate called [??] & Baily Gwynne situate in the Parish of Leanvihangel
    Rhydithon in the County of Radnor I also give & bequeath unto my
    said Son John Moore for & during the term of his natural life one [end of page 1]
     
  10. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

    Online
    Messages:
    6,151
    Likes Received:
    17,337
    Location:
    Knighton, Powys, Wales
    That is fantastic Moggy {-(^^)-}thank you very much indeed :).
     
    mugwortismy cat likes this.
  11. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

    Offline
    Messages:
    3,436
    Likes Received:
    5,766
    Location:
    London, England
    found myself unable to settle to anything else, so I've done page 2

    [page 2]

    other [??] yearly rent charge or sum of twenty five pounds payable
    as aforesaid out of my Estate called Trovargan situate in the parish
    of Leanvihangel Rhydithon in the County of Radnor I also give &
    bequeath unto my son John Moore for and during the term of his
    natural life the full and clear interest of seven hundred pounds &
    I hereby direct my Executors to place(?) out the same at interest upon good
    sufficient security the said Sum of Seven hundred pounds & to pay ~
    the interest thereof unto my said Son John Moore in half yearly ~
    payments as aforesaid and in case my said Son John Moore [??] [??]
    marry and have issue lawfully begotten then I do give & bequeath
    the said Principal Sum of seven hundred pounds to be equally divided
    between them share and share alike and to be paid them when they
    attain the age of twenty one years and I do ratify and confirm the
    Settlement made on my marriage with my wife Ann Moore whereby
    a sufficient Estate is settled upon which my said Son John Moore
    will be intitled(?) to at her decease I also give & bequeath unto my ~
    daughter Elizabeth Moore the sum of one hundred pounds to be paid ~
    her by my Executors within twelve months next after my decease if she
    shall have attained the age of twenty one years I also give and ~
    bequeath unto my said Daur Elizabeth Moore the Sum of one ~
    thousand four hundred pounds the interest thereof to be paid her ~
    regularly after she attains the age of twenty one years by my Executors &
    the principal sum at such time or times that she shall have lawful
    issue begotten on her marriage with the consent of my said Executors ~
    hereinafter named I also give & bequeath unto my said Sons Richard
    Moore & Thomas Moore all and all [??] of interest benefit and
    advantage which I have of and in an [????] [??] of a lease of ~
    lands granted to me by the [????] and Trustees of a Charity during
    the remainder of the said [??] to be equally divided between them
    share and share alike I also give & bequeath unto my loving Wife
    Ann Moore the Sum of Twenty pounds to be paid her by my Executors~
    within the space of one month next after my decease and I do hereby
    will and direct that in case either of my Sons or my daur aforesaid~
    shall happen to die before they shall have attained their [????] &
    ages aforesaid without leaving any child or children by or upon their
    respective body or bodies lawfully begotten then I give & bequeath the
    legacy or legacies of his her or their [????] to be equally divided
    between the survivors of my Children as aforesaid share and share alike
    if more than one but if any or either of my aforesaid Children ~
    shall die before he she or they shall have arrived at the [?????]
    ages as aforesaid [????] to receive such legacy or legacies aforesaid
    leaving any Child or Children by or upon their respective body or bodies
    lawfully begotten then my will and desire and I give & bequeath
    the legacies of him her or them so dying to be equally divided
    between such Children if more than one in equal shares and ~
    proportions I also give and bequeath to my said dear Wife my
    best bed bedstead bolster bedcloaths pillows and bed furniture thereunto
    belonging she to make choice thereof herself I also give & bequeath
    unto my said dear daur Elizabeth Moore one bed bedstead bed cloaths
    bolster pillows & bed furniture thereunto belonging she to make ~
    choice thereof herself after her mother has chosen hers I also give
    & bequeath unto my said Sons one bed bedstead bedcloaths bolsters ~
    pillows & bed furniture thereunto belonging to be chosen for each
    of them by my said Executors and the rest residue and remainder of
    my household goods & furniture I give & bequeath unto my Executors
    [end of page 2]
     
    AnnB, Chimp and Ma-dotcom like this.
  12. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

    Online
    Messages:
    6,151
    Likes Received:
    17,337
    Location:
    Knighton, Powys, Wales
    Once again, thank you very much Muggy. John certainly knew how to get across what he wanted to give to each of them, making sure that he closed any loop-holes on the way.

    I have a friend who works up at Llanfihangel Rhydithon (we know it as Dolau (pronounced Doll-I or locally Dolly) I will ask him if he can work out the names of some of the farms around there. There is a place called Llandegley (that you mention in the first page) Looks like John was a wealthy land-owner around these parts.

    Thank you again ;)
     
    mugwortismy cat likes this.
  13. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

    Offline
    Messages:
    3,327
    Likes Received:
    14,584
    Location:
    North Devon, England
    There are several refs to the family in various documents at
    http://
    static.powys.gov.uk/uploads/media/R_DX_27_bi.pdf
    but I don't think any of it is on line. They seem to have used the surname Thomas-Moore later down the line.

    There are also bits and bobs at
    http://www.
    heritageheroes.org.uk/collections/getrecord/CCA_XD3651_B_25_1_2_12
    regarding Ann Moore
    http://www.
    heritageheroes.org.uk/collections/getrecord/CCA_XD3651_B_25_1_2_8

    There is probably more (sorry :rolleyes:) stuff to be found, but I don't know how much you want to find on this family :)

    Ann
     
    Chimp and Ma-dotcom like this.
  14. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

    Online
    Messages:
    6,151
    Likes Received:
    17,337
    Location:
    Knighton, Powys, Wales
    Thank you very much Ann. The one site has given me more info on the children. I now know there were 6 children from the baptisms, the 2 others being Ann and James. They must have died as they are not mentioned in their fathers will.
    Pure speculation here, but as Thomas Moore died without issue and therefore had no one to leave his money to, did he leave it to nieces and nephews on the proviso that they use Thomas-Moore as their surname?

    I do wish I could find a copy of Thomas' will :oops:
     
    AnnB likes this.
  15. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

    Offline
    Messages:
    3,327
    Likes Received:
    14,584
    Location:
    North Devon, England
    I doubt you'll find a copy on-line :( but if you fancy splashing out you could buy a copy from the new GOV.UK Wills service
    https://
    probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=moore&yearOfDeath=1872&page=9#calendar

    Ann
     
    Ma-dotcom and Chimp like this.
  16. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

    Online
    Messages:
    6,151
    Likes Received:
    17,337
    Location:
    Knighton, Powys, Wales
    I will send for a copy....just as soon as I can remember how and where :rolleyes:
     
  17. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

    Offline
    Messages:
    3,436
    Likes Received:
    5,766
    Location:
    London, England
    next installment :)

    [page 3]

    to be by them equally divided between my wife and children aforesaid
    and I do hereby will & direct that in case either of my sons John Moore
    or Thomas Moore shall be minded or desirous on continuing to [erased] farm
    then I give and devise all my implements of husbandry unto my Executors
    to be by them valued or sold for the best price that can be got for the same
    but to give the refusal of such valuation unto my said Sons John ~
    Moore and Thomas Moore or either of them and I do hereby further
    will and direct that in case my said Son Thomas Moore shall not ~
    have attained his respective age of twenty one years at the time of
    my decease that my Executors hereinafter named shall sett lott [in??]
    repair and receive and devised to my said son for his use until he ~
    shall arrive at the respective age of twenty one years as aforesaid Also
    I give and devise the said Estate to my Executors during his minority in
    trust for that purpose and I will and direct that in case my said daur
    shall not have attained the age of twenty one years at the time of
    my decease that it shall and may be lawful for my Executors to lay out
    at Interest in her name on Government or landed securities the
    legacy or Sum of one thousand four hundred pounds so as aforesaid given
    to her & apply the interest thereof for and towards her maintenance
    cloathing & education and with the surplus if any to increase and ~
    improve the Capital until she shall attain at the age of twenty one ~
    years at which time my will is that she might receive the interest
    thereof until the time of her marriage with the consent of my said
    Executors when she shall be intitled to receive the said legacy so given
    to her aforesaid I also give & bequeath unto my worthy ffriend ~
    Thomas Evans my Executor the sum of ffive pounds for his case and ~
    trouble in the execution of this my will provided he takes upon ~
    himself the Executorship thereof with my said sons Richard Moore and
    Thomas Moore I also give devise and bequeath all the rest residue
    and remainder of my real and personal Estate of what nature or ~
    kind soever unto my sons Richard Moore & Thomas Moore their
    Executors administrators and assigns for ever and I [???] constitute
    insinuate(?) & appoint my said sons Richard Moore Thomas Moore ~
    [one line erased]
    [most of one line erased] & Thomas
    Evans of Treburvah(?) in the Parish of Llangimlbo(?) in the County
    of Radnor Gentleman joint Executors of this my will hereby revoking &
    making void all former or other Wills by me at any time heretofore
    made I declare this only to be my last Will & Testament In witness
    whereof I the said John Moore the testator have hereunto set my
    hand and Seal this fourth day of January in the year of our Lord
    one thousand eight hundred & sixteen --- John Moore --- Signed sealed
    published and declared by the said Testator John Moore as and for his ~
    last Will and Testament in the presence of us who in his presence and
    at his request and in the presence of each other have subscribed our
    names as Witnesses thereto -- William Owens Cantab Staribister -
    David Griffiths Graige(?) Llanvl. Rhydithon -- Thos Meredith Knighton

    Codicil at the decease of my Wife Ann I [???] my Son John
    Moore to receive from Greiye & Baily [???] only 25- £ yearly and
    from Trevorgan only £15 yearly as he will then be possessed of his
    mothers settlement

    30 december 1816
    Appeared personally Richard Moore of Presteign in the
    County of Radnor Gentleman Thomas Moore of Old Hall in the
    Parish of Llanviangel Rhydithon in the same County Gentleman
    [end of page 3]
     
    Ma-dotcom, AnnB and Chimp like this.
  18. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

    Offline
    Messages:
    3,436
    Likes Received:
    5,766
    Location:
    London, England
    and the rest (can't sleep o_O)

    [page 4]

    and Thomas Evans of Troburvah in the Parish of Llangunllo in
    the same County Gentleman James Stevens of Presteign aforesaid Gentleman
    & David Jenkins James of the place Gentleman & being severally
    sworn to depose the truth made oath as follows and first the said ~
    Richard Moore Thomas Moore and Thomas Evans for themselves
    made oath that they are the Executors named in the last will &
    Testament of John Moore late of Old Hall aforesaid Esq died who
    departed this life on the tenth day of November last past and the ~
    said Richard Moore and Thomas Moore further under oath that
    on the seventeenth day of the same month [erased] subsequent to the
    death of the said decd. they the said Richard Moore and Thomas
    Moore searched for the aforesaid last Will and Testament which
    they found deposited in a bureau or Chest of drawers standing in
    a bed Chamber in the decds. house bearing date the fourth day of
    January last that upon opening that same they discovered a small ~
    piece of paper folded up therein purporting to be a Codicil or ~
    direction of the said decd. as to certain sums of money to be received
    by his son John Moore instead of those charged to be paid him in
    his said Will in the manner and form in which the same now
    appears Then the said James Stephens and David Jenkins James for
    themselves made oath that they know and were acquainted with the
    said decd. for some time before & down to the period of his death &
    during such their knowledge of & acquaintance with him have often
    seen him write & are thereby become well acquainted with his ~
    manner character of handwriting and having now carefully viewed
    and perused the Paper writing or Codicil to the last Will & Testament
    of the said decd. herein before rote(?) and to as aforesaid and both now ~
    hereto annexed(?) the said Paper writing being in the following words
    & figures 'Codicil at the decease of my wife Ann Moore my son John
    Moore to receive from Gwnge & Baily-given only 25£ yearly and
    from Trevorgan only £15 yearly as he will then be possessed of his
    mothers settlement' do say that they verily & in their consciences
    believe the said words & figures to be of the proper handwriting of the
    said decd. & of no other person whatsoever -- Richd Moore -- Thos Moore
    Thomas Evans -- J Stephens -- D J James -- Same day the said Richard
    Moore Thomas Moore Thomas Evans James Stephens & David Jenkins
    James now duly sworn at Presteign aforesaid in virtue of the [???]
    hereto annexed before me -- James Beebee(?) -- [??]

    Proved at London with a Codicil 10 Jany. 1817 before the Judge by
    the oaths of Richard Moore & Thomas Moore the Sons & Thomas Evans
    the Executors whom admon was granted being sworn by [??] to administer

    [end]
     
    Ma-dotcom, AnnB and Chimp like this.
  19. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

    Online
    Messages:
    6,151
    Likes Received:
    17,337
    Location:
    Knighton, Powys, Wales
    WOW Muggy you have been busy. I can't thank you enough for transcribing this will for me {-(^^)-}

    John owned a fair bit of land and farms stretching from Llandegley to Llangunllo and some not recognised yet.

    Thank you very much indeed.
     
    mugwortismy cat likes this.
  20. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

    Offline
    Messages:
    3,436
    Likes Received:
    5,766
    Location:
    London, England
    Trying to work out this/these placenames; I see on Streetmap that there is a settlement called Graig near Old Hall --- also a Graig Wood, Graig Hill and a Dan-y-Graig

    I went back and looked again at a couple of occurrences of this phrase and the first word could be Graige

    [edit] not far north-eastish of Graig is a Bryn y Wellan --- but not so sure if that is a possible for the second part

    [edit] or how about Bwlchybryngolan, south-east from Old Hall?
     
    Chimp likes this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice