Thorgen?

Discussion in 'Essex' started by Findem, Aug 16, 2021.

  1. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One. Rest in Peace.

    Offline
    Messages:
    2,896
    Likes Received:
    13,311
    Location:
    NSW, Australia, ex Chelmsford Essex
    Pretty sure that's what they will turn out to be, I had seen those baptisms but not the part which stated they were private. Once I have those marriage related items and hopefully identify Sarah Sturgeon I'll move on to John and Elizabeth.

    Thanks for the help Jellylegs.
     
    Jellylegs likes this.
  2. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One. Rest in Peace.

    Offline
    Messages:
    2,896
    Likes Received:
    13,311
    Location:
    NSW, Australia, ex Chelmsford Essex
    Whist I was rapped to finally identify which William Potter married Rebekah Lawrence it was also a moment of sadness. I was co-researching this Potter Line with a lady in Essex, along with my trusty helper, my wife June, we once spent a day at the ERO with that lady.

    The sad part is that a some years back she died of Cancer so I'm unable to share that find with her. :(
     
  3. Jellylegs

    Jellylegs Well-Known Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    1,839
    Likes Received:
    3,983
    Location:
    Maidstone, Kent
    :(
     
    Ma-dotcom and Findem like this.
  4. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One. Rest in Peace.

    Offline
    Messages:
    2,896
    Likes Received:
    13,311
    Location:
    NSW, Australia, ex Chelmsford Essex
    Sent off for the four documents, probably be a long wait due to Covid.
     
  5. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One. Rest in Peace.

    Offline
    Messages:
    2,896
    Likes Received:
    13,311
    Location:
    NSW, Australia, ex Chelmsford Essex
    Here's a twist. We have John Potter marrying Sarah Sturgeon 11 Nov 1731 at Copford.
    Elizabeth bap 1732 at Copford, baptised at White Colne, Sarah 1733 and William 1736.

    Today I found Daniel Potter baptised 28 Aug 1728 at White Colne, the son of John and Sarah Potter, now what's going on there I wonder? :eek: :D
     
  6. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

    Offline
    Messages:
    10,485
    Likes Received:
    36,292
    Location:
    Orange, NSW Australia. The Colour City.
    We also find on FS Daniel birth date of 28th AUGUST 1728 baptism date 12 JANUARY 1728.
    Sarah on FS born 1733 is listed as PORTER but there is also a RICHARD 1725, JOHN 1723.
    All White Colne.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2021
    Findem likes this.
  7. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

    Offline
    Messages:
    10,485
    Likes Received:
    36,292
    Location:
    Orange, NSW Australia. The Colour City.
    These may help or they may mean nothing.....
    Essex and Suffolk Surnames, White Colne Burials 1708- 1783
    POTTER:
    Jane 6/4/1709
    Eliz. 2/4/1726
    Ann 11/2/1733/34 widdow
    John 1/12/1741
    ? 9/12 /1748 ye widdow Potter
    John son of Daniel 20/3/1753
    Elizabeth wife of Daniel 18/4/1754
    ? 14/6/1754 first name not in register
    Sarah 31/5/1770
     
    Findem likes this.
  8. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One. Rest in Peace.

    Offline
    Messages:
    2,896
    Likes Received:
    13,311
    Location:
    NSW, Australia, ex Chelmsford Essex
    I'll see what I can find out about those three, shame White Colne is not covered by FreeReg, I like to cross check where I can.
     
  9. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One. Rest in Peace.

    Offline
    Messages:
    2,896
    Likes Received:
    13,311
    Location:
    NSW, Australia, ex Chelmsford Essex
    I have received the form from the ERO Reprographic section for ordering the documents mentioned in post #16.

    I have made a copy of the PCC Will for John Potter, found it hard going, I found mention of John's wife Elizabeth, daughter Elizabeth and son William, haven't found his son John yet, nor deciphered most of what they were left. I noticed a mention of property in Suffolk, not sure of the details but when I and my eyes are not so tired I'll have another crack at it, I'll post what I find.
     
    Sandiep likes this.
  10. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One. Rest in Peace.

    Offline
    Messages:
    2,896
    Likes Received:
    13,311
    Location:
    NSW, Australia, ex Chelmsford Essex
    Just had a look for those on Ancestry's EPRI, here's what I found, no wonder a couple of them were difficult to find.
    Al baptised at White Colne the children of John and Sarah Potter.
    John Potter 27 Feb 1723.
    Richard Petter 27 Feb 1724.
    Daniel Potter 12 Jan 1728.
    Sarah Ports 20 May 1733.

    I couldn't find a John Potter marriage to a Sarah pre 1723 which looked 100% likely, Three people I found with the grooms surname sounding something like Potter were: -
    John Penter and Sarah Linnet 24 Feb 1722 at Colne Engaine john of Pebmarsh, the groom's surname on FreeReg is Peuter.
    John Powter and Sarah Pasfield 9 Oct 1722 at Coggeshall.
    John Pottle and Sarah Jeffries 31 May 1711 at Stanway.
    Those places are none to far from the Colnes but I have doubts.

    A goodly number of years ago I did go down a wrong turn looking for the William Turner who married Rebekah Lawrence in 1736, it looked as though his parents were John Potter and Sarah Radley but after a closer inspection it was found the groom's surname was Poulter.

    The reason I don't think those marriages are of a John Potter and Sarah is because I think Peuter and Powter etc are a different surname, to Potter, not just a mis-spelling of Potter, just to show why I think that, here are some baptisms as examples from Colne Engaine.

    Mary Powter 11 Jan 1743 of Samuel and Mary.
    Samuel Potter 12 Feb 1743 of John and Hannah.
    Susan Powter 25 Nov 1744 of Samuel and Mary.
    John Potter 27 Oct 1745 of John and Hannah.
    Mary Powter 19 Apr 1747 of Samuel and Mary.
    Ann Pouter 21 Jan 1749 of Samuel and Mary.

    So the curate at Colne Engaine thought the two surnames were different.

    I did check out Pebmarsh but no Potter, Peuter or Penter children of a John and Sarah were baptised there 1720 t0 1749.
     
    Ma-dotcom likes this.
  11. Jellylegs

    Jellylegs Well-Known Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    1,839
    Likes Received:
    3,983
    Location:
    Maidstone, Kent
    Thirteen lines up from the bottom of the first full page - "I give and devise to my eldest son John Potter ......" - though I think that the few lines before that relate.
     
    Findem and Sandiep like this.
  12. janetbooth

    janetbooth Top Dog Stalwart

    Offline
    Messages:
    1,702
    Likes Received:
    3,694
    Location:
    Congleton, Cheshire
    If it helps at all, Derek, My reading & summary of the Will is that John snr left his daughter Elizabeth his freehold messuage etc in Colne Wake & Chappell in the occupation of James MILLER. He left his son William his freehold messuage etc in Brantham, Suffolk late in the occupation of John SCARLET now in the tenure of Henry NUNN. All his other messuages, etc in the county of Essex he leaves to his eldest son John POTTER whom he also makes his Executor. He mentions his unfortunate kinsman William NEWMAN & Margaret his daughter. He also mentions the poor people of the parish of Chappell, the parish of Mount Bures, the parish of Brantham & the parish of Colne Wake. Wife Elizabeth to be Guardian of his 3 children until they reach the age of 21. Brothers in law Nicholas FREEMAN & John FREEMAN of Dedham, neighbour Solomon GRIMSTONE of Chappell, brother in law Isaac CHAPLIN & kinsmen Thomas GOODDALL of Boxstead and his son John my godson, John DEAN & John WYTHE, both of Fordham. He also mentions his sister Susanna KEABLE?, widow, & niece Mary NEWMAN.

    I have also just noticed a PCC Will for a John POTTER of White Colne, Yeoman, dated 16 October 1651 and proved on 7 June 1656 & one for a George POTTER of White Colne proved on 22 April 1659 which might give some useful background information. Yet another PCC Will for a William POTTER of Brantham, Suffolk proved in 1625 in which he mentions a bequest of land in White Colne to his brother John POTTER, so one would assume they are likely to be connected somewhere along the line to John POTTER probable father of your John POTTER of Colne Wake.

    Janet
     
  13. Sandiep

    Sandiep Successfully Supports Searches!

    Offline
    Messages:
    1,622
    Likes Received:
    5,326
    Location:
    Bloxham Oxfordshire
    those are all on White Colne at St Andrews for John & Sarah Potter
     
    Findem likes this.
  14. Sandiep

    Sandiep Successfully Supports Searches!

    Offline
    Messages:
    1,622
    Likes Received:
    5,326
    Location:
    Bloxham Oxfordshire
    also in 1736 a William son of John & Sarah Potter was Bap 19th Aug
    at St Andrews White Colne
    no marriage for John & Sarah there but did find a George Potter marrying an Elizabeth Sholly? by Banns apl 25 1725 then a george potter widdower in 1728 marrying a Rachel Clark a single woman (for ref!)

    George & Elizabeth had a son George in 1726 Mar 12th
     
    Ma-dotcom and Findem like this.
  15. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One. Rest in Peace.

    Offline
    Messages:
    2,896
    Likes Received:
    13,311
    Location:
    NSW, Australia, ex Chelmsford Essex
    That William Potter is the one who married Rebekah Lawrence and is my ancestor, I'll have to check him again because I have the 15th of Aug.
     
    Ma-dotcom likes this.
  16. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One. Rest in Peace.

    Offline
    Messages:
    2,896
    Likes Received:
    13,311
    Location:
    NSW, Australia, ex Chelmsford Essex
    Thanks for that summary Janet, interesting reading, especially about having property in Brantham in Suffolk, must look up where Brantham is might be just across the border.

    The connection with Potters in Suffolk is interesting, must make a note of that when tracking down Potter ancestors because it looks like I will come to a dead end in Essex at some point.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2021
  17. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One. Rest in Peace.

    Offline
    Messages:
    2,896
    Likes Received:
    13,311
    Location:
    NSW, Australia, ex Chelmsford Essex
    It's amazing how this topic is reaching epic proportions.

    It's a bit sickening really, I've got several moneyed families in both my maternal and paternal lines and not a penny came my way. :( :D

    Btw, I've come to the conclusion I might need my reading glasses updated, might account for the tired eyes, had them some time now, the glasses that is.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2021
  18. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One. Rest in Peace.

    Offline
    Messages:
    2,896
    Likes Received:
    13,311
    Location:
    NSW, Australia, ex Chelmsford Essex
    Had another shot at finding a pre 1731 marriage of a John Potter to a Sarah but again failed.

    How likely is it back then for an unmarried couple to have three children and then marry three years after the third child was born.

    The three children baptised at White Colne are: John 1723, Richard 1724 and Daniel 1728.

    I'm wondering if John was previously married to a Sarah in the Brantham Suffolk area, just had a look on the map and Brantham is located only just over the Essex and Suffolk border, it's likely John would have visited the family property

    I realise that the wedding entry to Sarah Sturgeon didn't mention John Potter as being a Widower but ....
     
    Ma-dotcom likes this.
  19. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One. Rest in Peace.

    Offline
    Messages:
    2,896
    Likes Received:
    13,311
    Location:
    NSW, Australia, ex Chelmsford Essex
    Thought I'd have another look on Ancestry Public trees in the light of the progress made, no clues there still.

    What did alarm me was that 83 trees have John Potter who was baptised in 1723 at White Colne, the son of John & Sarah Potter.

    I was shocked to see that so many trees apppeared to have slavishly copied incorrect info, they show incorrectly that John Potter is the son of John Potter and his wife Sarah Radley who married 26 Mar 1722 at Halstead

    In fact it was a John Poulter who married Sarah Radley 26 Mar 1722 at Halstead, both Ancestry's EPRI and Free Reg show the groom as John Poulter, Free Reg have both being single, John of Maplestead and Sarah of Halstead. I only found one child that could be theirs in the period of 1722 to 1742, Sarah daughter of John and Sarah Poulter baptised 30 Aug 1724 at Sible Hedingham, Essex.

    Ironically, myself and a co-researcher originally thought Sarah Radley was married to a John Potter which fitted nicely and we went down that path for quite a while, until we discovered the surname Potter was in fact Poulter. I will say though that the PR entry for the John Poulter and Sarah Radley marriage wasn't the best to read, especially the surname Poulter.

    I tried to message someone to let them know but their names come up with an X and it's not possible to send a message, a pity really that there's no way to give people correct info.
     
    Ma-dotcom and MollyMay like this.
  20. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One. Rest in Peace.

    Offline
    Messages:
    2,896
    Likes Received:
    13,311
    Location:
    NSW, Australia, ex Chelmsford Essex
    Had a bit of luck with the family of John and Elizabeth Potter and family, the parents of John Potter born 1708 who married Sarah Sturgeon.

    I had from the EPRI two marriages of a John Potter to Elizabeth one at Little Horkesley and the other at Colchester St Peter.

    Checked on FreeReg and one of the John Potters was noted as being of Wakes Colne.

    John Potter of Wakes Colne married Elizabeth Freeman of Dedham married 14 Dec 1704 at Colchester St Peter, appears to be only 3 children from that marriage, all baptised at Wakes Colne.
    John baptised 16 Feb 1707 or 8, husband of Sarah Sturgeon.
    Elizabeth baptised 21 May 1710.
    William baptised 1 or 31 Jan 1712

    The reason I jumped ahead a generation is because at the moment I know exactly where the info I've got is noted, all I needed was which John Potter and Elizabeth is the right one. Now I have all relevant info on the Family Group Sheets for the families of John and Sarah Potter plus John and Elizabeth Potter. :)
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice