Translalation, Latin to English, help please

Discussion in 'Ask The Experts' started by Findem, Jun 27, 2020 at 3:47 AM.

  1. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One

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    It's the 3rd from the top on the left hand side.
    I can read 19 June 1697 Richard son of Richard Cornell, something (mar?) & Mary, Latin word, then an address something lane something, 28 days old.

    I'm wondering if the Latin word after Mary might mean "his wife" because it is present in other baptisms on that page.

    This entry appeared whilst searching for a pre 1697 marriage for Richard Cornwall to a Mary. This couple had four children baptised at Kelvedon, Essex, Richard, Joseph and Judith all on 6 Jan 1697 and Mary 10 Nov 1700, I haven't been able to find the marriage for Richard and Mary.

    So when this baptism popped up it caught my interest when I saw the year 1697.

    The image for the 1697 Kelvedon baptisms had the word age and a space for both Richard and Joseph but unfortunately the space had been left blank, so it's obvious that Richard was born well before 1697.
     

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  2. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    I suppose a wait for a Latin specialist might help but after that word there is also ‘in’ or ‘at’. I’m thinking ‘living in’/‘at’. The word ‘mar e’ also. Does that one mean ‘married to’ ?
     
  3. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One

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    I suppose the Latin word could mean living at or abode, the address follows it.

    "Mar e" could well mean something along the lines of married to as you suggest or his wife, I agree that it would be best to have the verdict of a Latin specialist, I wouldn't trust my versions.:D
     
  4. Libby

    Libby Well-Known Member

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    I think the word after Mary is uxor which I think means wife.
     
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  5. kernowmaid

    kernowmaid Well-Known Member

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    mar = mariner
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2020 at 8:10 AM
  6. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Yes! An expert...thank you @Libby
     
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  7. kernowmaid

    kernowmaid Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, got called away ...

    I'm pretty certain that "mar" is the father's occupation (see "apothecary"), and as there appear to be several "mar"'s, and a "shipwright", maybe this is beside the sea. So "mar" might mean "mariner"?

    "uxor" = wife, and as the other examples are followed by "in + address" perhaps this is something on the lines of:

    "in mgfit in galo lane"??
    (in margate in gallow lane?)

    Jane
    (haven't done Latin since 1967 - but I think the only Latin word here is "uxor")
     
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  8. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    I think you could be right @kernowmaid about the occupation. Well done.
     
  9. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Kelvedon doesn't seem to be anywhere near water. Perhaps a river, maybe. We need another expert. But I do agree on mariner.
    Ah ha...the river Blackwater, when I see mariner I think of big ships or whalers, not rivers. Perhaps they were fisher people.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2020 at 8:44 AM
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  10. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    FMP have a transcription of this entry (from St John's Wapping), taken from the records of the London Docklands and East End baptisms. Richard has the occupation of mariner and the end bit actually reads 'in Nightingale Lane' - written on two lines :rolleyes:

    Nightingale Lane is now known as Thomas More Street.
     
  11. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Well, look at that. Near the Tower Bridge. Goes to show how much I know of London. :rolleyes:
     
  12. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One

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    Thanks everyone for the help.

    It could I know, be just a coincidence that a Richard son of Richard and Mary Cornwell was baptised 16 Jun 1697 and then six months later up pops a Richard and Mary Cornwall baptise a son Richard 6 Jan 1697 at Kelvedon, a child who from the entry is not a new born. Not only that but a Richard Cornwall and Mary marriage that I cannot find in Essex or seemingly anywhere, looks as though I'll have to leave the June 1697 Richard as a maybe, can't think of a way to prove a link at the moment.

    It's not unknown for parents to have children baptised in two parishes, my Pudney ancestor family did just that.
    Mary baptised 9 May 1659 at Terling, then 5 Jun 1659 at Fairstead, buried 1 Jul 1659 at Terling.
    Mary baptised 19 May 1660 at Terling, then 12 Jul 1660 at Fairstead.
    The next five children were all baptised at Terling.

    The River Blackwater in days gone by saw ocean going sailing barges calling in at Maldon and there is a canal going from Maldon to Chelmsford, which in the past saw barges transporting goods and I suppose people along that canal. There are still ocean going sailing barges at Maldon and they compete in Sailing Barge races, or at least did a few years ago.

    Note, for those who haven't read the PR image, the surname is Cornwell, not Cornell as I stated in my first post.
     
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  13. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Did these barges also carry a Minister perhaps to baptise babes born on the sidelines?
     
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  14. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One

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    I doubt it, probably baptised in the next port, probably some of my ancestors got married that way and that's why I can't find the blighters! He smiles. the smilies not working. :)

    :confused: Edit, now they are :confused:
     
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