Translation from Russian

Discussion in 'Ask The Experts' started by CaroleF, Apr 3, 2016.

  1. CaroleF

    CaroleF Well-Known Member

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    Apologies if this is not the most appropriate place to post ..... but does anyone on here read Russian/Cyrillic handwriting and able to translate into English please? Or know anyone who would be able to do it?

    I have a scan of a copy of a marriage certificate in Russian dating from 1920. I do also have a translation (by someone unknown to me), but am not 100% confident that it is accurate or complete.

    I know I can get it translated 'professionally' but am reluctant to go down that route unless I have to. I'd be very grateful if anyone here can help.
     
  2. crazycatlady22

    crazycatlady22 Well-Known Member

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    I think that Mr. Google has a translator. It might be worth typing something into Google and asking it to translate for you. Just a thought.
     
  3. CaroleF

    CaroleF Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the idea, but - as I mentioned - this is a handwritten document using the Russian alphabet. So I'm afraid that won't work. I haven't a clue where to start with that one :confused:

    It needs someone fluent in Russian *and* who can read handwritten Russian/Cyrillic script - which is possibly in an 'old-fashioned' style of handwriting since the document dates from 1920.
     
  4. PeterG

    PeterG Well-Known Member

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    Can't you make it available online to us? Google Drive or something similar?

    I have some Russian but rather rusty these days. I may be able to help a bit.

    If you can't put it online you're welcome to email it. Goodness knows how that works on this site.
     
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  5. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    All you have to do is send your email address to CaroleF in a private message. Click on her username and the message (conversation) option appears. :)
     
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  6. GrannyBarb

    GrannyBarb Custodian of the Family Accounts

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    The alternate keyboard characters are available if you search on "ASCII codes" to get a table showing the symbols and their "computer code" equivalents. On most keyboards you can use the ALT key while typing in the number assigned to each the character. After that's done, you can copy and paste into a text translator.

    This doesn't address being able to read the handwriting to begin with. It's only helpful if you want to key it into the computer.

    Good luck, Carol. Let us know what you find out.
     
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  7. CaroleF

    CaroleF Well-Known Member

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    Many thanks for this info. I will store it away for potential future use, though - as you say - it is only helpful if you can read the hand writing in the first place which I can't in this particular case.
     
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  8. CaroleF

    CaroleF Well-Known Member

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    Many thanks for offering to help, Peter. Now I have your email address I will send you the file.
    I will try it uploading it to this thread too.
     
  9. PeterG

    PeterG Well-Known Member

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    One needs to bear in mind the orthographic reforms of 1918. A document dating from 1920 may still use the old style alphabet.
     
  10. CaroleF

    CaroleF Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I think you will be right, Peter. Given that this 1920 marriage certificate in question comes from the/a Russian Orthodox Church in Constantinople (and I rather think not yet 'purged' by the Bolsheviks) I suspect that the writing will pre-date 1918 reform.

    NB Still trying to find the marriage certificate on my computer (filing system not well organised right now!) Will email it to you asap.
     
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  11. CaroleF

    CaroleF Well-Known Member

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    Here's the marriage certificate (from Constantinople, 1920) Anyone apart from Peter like to/able to have a go at translation?
     

    Attached Files:

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  12. GrannyBarb

    GrannyBarb Custodian of the Family Accounts

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    My connection is poor today and wouldn't load the image. Will give it a peek later... not that it would help you at all, just curious. ;)
     
  13. arthurk

    arthurk Well-Known Member

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    I can't make out much of this, though there's something about William Barter being Presbyterian, and a British Lieutenant. Also Thaissa's details refer to a Major General - possibly her father? - but I'm not sure.

    I know it might influence our efforts, but if you were to post the transcription you have, I might be able to spot any glaring errors.... (Or not)
     
  14. CaroleF

    CaroleF Well-Known Member

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    What you have managed thus far tallies with the transcription I already have. Your 'O' Level Russian has stood you in good stead!
    From other sources ..... Barter William Faithorn was indeed a Lieutenant in the British Army and I know that Thaissa certainly claimed her father was a Major General in the Russian Army (presumably the 'White's'). Barter wasn't actually a Presbyterian, military records show that he +others in his immediate family were C of E - but that's not, I think, a translation error. Rather to do with a Russian Orthodox interpretation of anyone who was Protestant ;)

    As you say, the transcription I already have might influence further efforts, but nevertheless I will put it up here in my nest post in this thread.
     
  15. PeterG

    PeterG Well-Known Member

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    I doubt that I can do better than Arthur. I have to log off and can't return to this before Tuesday at the earliest. This document seems to have been issued by the Consular Section of the Russian diplomatic mission in Constantinople. The crest on the stamp is the Russian imperial eagle. Looks like an outpost of the old regime trying to hang on.
     
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  16. CaroleF

    CaroleF Well-Known Member

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    Here's the transcription of the marriage certificate I already have. I don't know who did this, but I have a feeling it doesn't actually include *everything* recorded on the document.

    I'm particularly interested to know what the original Russian document says down in the bottom right hand corner. I don't speak/read Russian but is that recording the birth of Barter and Thaissa's son, Alan Raymond? He was born in Constantinople on 21 March 1921.

    Also, as you'll see, the original transcriber stated that one of the witnesses to the marriage had a title. Can you figure out what that was, please?
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Apr 3, 2016
  17. CaroleF

    CaroleF Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for your time on this. If, on your return, you feel like working on it some more then that would be great.
    What you have said here is in itself helpful as it confirms something I wasn't entirely sure about (ie who exactly issued the document). From what I know of the Russian Civil War I'm sure you are right too about Constantinople being an outpost of the old régime. Certainly large numbers of White Russians were in the city at this stage.
     
  18. GrannyBarb

    GrannyBarb Custodian of the Family Accounts

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    I need to make a correction to prior post #6. ASCII is outdated. Use Unicode instead:
    Code:
    http://unicode-table.com/en/
    Human method seems to have worked pretty well. ;)
     
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  19. arthurk

    arthurk Well-Known Member

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    Not surprising I was struggling with a name like that! I was thinking of Barter as a surname (written before the forename, as some cultures do), and Faithorn as some strange Russian word. Anyway, so long as you're happy with the name, I'll leave that bit to you. ;)
    Quite possibly. I was totally unaware of the political situation behind this, though I did think it strange that a post-revolution Russian document should refer to someone's religion. (Though post-revolution wouldn't they have said Soviet rather than Russian?)
    Thanks - I've now got both documents downloaded. I may not be able to look at it again till tomorrow, but I'll certainly try to add a bit to what I've said already. Don't let that put anyone else off!
     
  20. CaroleF

    CaroleF Well-Known Member

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    I don't think an 'outpost' of Tsarist Russia (as was the case here in 1920 Constantinople) would have done anything at all to recognise the reality of the situation. Besides, the post-Revolution Civil War was not yet over in the South - well not quite. If I remember correctly, the term USSR was not used until 1922.

    Anything at all you (or anyone else) may be able to add will be gratefully received.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2016
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