Trying to sort it all out

Discussion in 'Illegitimacy' started by Lusmum, Sep 20, 2019.

  1. Lusmum

    Lusmum Active Member

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    This is my problem, my grandmother had the middle name of Knight, she put her father as Samuel Knight on her marriage cert. There was a Samuel Knight who would have been known to her mother as he was a fisherman the same as her father. I traced him back to his marriage and his children. He had a son Samuel, great I thought, her father. Wrong both Samuels died before she was born. I found on the 1871 census another Samuel Knight living in our town, from a small Village near by. But he died the same year. Yet in 1881 census she is down under her stepfathers name but beside her name it has Nurse Girl, which I believe means her father was paying for her. I enlisted the help of our record office, willing to pay for research into any Poor Law payments, they came Back with search the National Archives. But I can’t find anything on it. I suspect that he may not have been Samuel. It was the name of her grandfather and her stepfather and may have been just what her mother told her. This has bothered me for years as I would dearly love to find that line of my family. Never found her baptism record which may or may not give me any more than I have.
     
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  2. Chinch

    Chinch Member

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    Hi Lusmum,
    have you got your Grandmother's birth certificate? It might be a silly question but it might give you the Father's name? Is that too obvious? It is so difficult when you can't find the information you need. Have you tried searching the local church records where your Grandmother was born in case she was baptised there?
    Sorry can't be of any help really.
     
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  3. Sandiep

    Sandiep Successfully Supports Searches!

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    can you give her details and we can have a look see if we come up with any ideas
     
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  4. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Could the name Knight have been for the people who looked after her as 'nurse child' or the mother of a G'parent? Even - although you haven't found a baptism - the name of a god parent or good friend of her Parents.
     
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  5. Half Hour

    Half Hour Well-Known Member

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    Did any of the Samuel Knights that you found die within 9 months of her being born. You said the one died the same year...the same year as he was born?
     
  6. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    I come from a line of Knights from Arundle Sussex and Petworth. No Samuels in my line though.
     
  7. Lusmum

    Lusmum Active Member

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    Thank you all for answering. Yes Chinch, I do have her birth certificate. No father, she was born in the workhouse. 24th October 1868. Louisa Knight Lane, mother Mary Ann Lane. Registered 13th November 1868. Ma-com no other Knights in my family, she stayed with her mother until she married my grandfather, which. Was when she named her father as Samuel Knight. Half Hour, 2 died well before she was born the 3rd one found on the 1871 census in Eastbourne was a man and died the year of the census. Her mother had had twin girls before Louisa and was back in the workhouse in 1871 where she had another girl. She kept all the girls with her. The other 3 were in the workhouse with her when she had the last one. After that she married as a Widow! Samuel Morris and on the 1881 census the girls are all with their mother under the name Morris,that when Nurse girl is next to Louisa’s name, not next to any of the other 3. She strangely enough married as Louisa Lane Knight, making it a double surname, that’s when she named her father as Samuel Knight, A Carter. That’s why I asked our record office if they could do some research into the Poor Law of Eastbourne and they came back with search the National Archives. Anyone know if a Poor Law case would make the local paper? Just had a thought that hadn’t come to me before, our main Library may have it in a newspaper. Looked on fmp and found nothing. Thank you all so much in your interest. Val
     
  8. Lusmum

    Lusmum Active Member

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    Just out of interest, Louisa’s mother must have mixed the girls up when she named Louisa’s father. The first twin married before and just used the surname Lane. On Louisa’s marriage cert. the other twin was a witness and gave her surname as Lane Knight too. The 4 girl got it mixed up and put it down as Knight Lane. I have had a lot of explaining to do to first cousins who were doing their tree about the name their grandmother used.
     
  9. Chinch

    Chinch Member

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    I have found ( I think) a distant ancestor who was born in 1895 and was in and out of the workhouse but I cannot find a birth certificate on GRO , do you suppose that children born in the workhouse weren't registered when born there and so didn't have their baptisms registered either which is why you and I can't find a baptism record for our ancestors? .
    I queried the missing birth at GRO but they say their records are correct.
    I think that a baptism record would be of some help as sometimes the Father would be named.
     
  10. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    I have several births / Baptisms from the workhouse. I'm led to believe a Clergyman visited the workhouse & baptised babies. Remember it was also the hospital for many people. I also found another child not on the GRO registry but listed on FreeBMD. Have you also checked FreeReg?
     
  11. Chinch

    Chinch Member

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    Yes, I did try FreeBMD but it isn't listed there either, weirdly. I don't know FreeReg but will put it in and see what comes up, thanks for that. I don't understand why the GRO and FreeBMD haven't got the birth listed when I have several records from Ancestry showing her birth date and where she was at certain dates. When you say you have birth/baptisms from the workhouse does that mean you have the certificates for these, Wendy?
    I will look them up tomorrow and see what Free Reg has, too tired tonight and my bed is calling me!!
    Thanks for replying. Goodnight x
     
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  12. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    I would read that as Louisa's occupation (helping new mums and babies perhaps, a junior monthly nurse).
     
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  13. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    I agree :)
     
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  14. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Church records as listed on Ancestry.

    Workhouse Bapt..JPG
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2019
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  15. Chinch

    Chinch Member

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    Oh, I see ! Well, that disproves my theory and takes me back to the drawing board! Thanks for this.
    I think "Nurse Girl" would be the occupation of Louisa too.
     
  16. Chinch

    Chinch Member

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    Hi, I have gone back to the drawing board and found an entry for my ancestor on GRO by adding an extra 2 years to the search period. Thanks all.
    Lusmum, have you tried adding a few years to the dates you are searching? If you are fairly new to this as I am, then it might be something you haven't tried yet?
     
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  17. Grizel

    Grizel Well-Known Member

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    Were you able to eliminate the Samuel Knight who died in 1871? He drowned in a water tank, possibly suicide. In one of the newspaper accounts he was described as a carter which matches the occupation mentioned on Louisa's marriage certificate.
     
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  18. Lusmum

    Lusmum Active Member

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    Hi Chinch, I have been doing this about 25 years, long before there was anything online. Going to the record office and the library, visiting churchyards. Bought a mountain of certificates. Searching Parish Records, in-fact Daft Bat ( Jan ) is a fourth cousin and we exchanged family information years ago that joined us. Geisel I never followed up the Samuel Knight from the 1871 census because Louisa never put her father as deceased on her marriage. Thank you for that, she was illiterate so may not have known to do it. I can go back and follow him as I know the Village he came from very well. I have visited it and the graveyard as other family on my other side also lived and died there. Some interesting graves that gave me a lot of information. Having found he died I never checked how, thank you so much. Also thank you for the input that Louisa may have been a helper as as a nurse girl. I did some research last night and found what I already knew, Nurse Child was usually a child that was fostered out. I had believed maybe wrongly that her Stepfather may have been the reason her mother claimed money from her father, but that just brought up the question of why the fathers of the other girls didn’t pay. Every answer brings up another question. I thank you all for the effort you have all put in and given me other avenues to explore. Happy hunting Val
     

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