Vollers in Hampshire

Discussion in 'Hampshire' started by Sheryl B, Dec 28, 2013.

  1. Sheryl B

    Sheryl B Member

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    I am wondering if anyone can help me with some information about Abraham VOLLER who was born in Widley, Hampshire in 1804. His family were the subject of at least one removal order when he was young and he and his sister Ann were also removed at one point also. Can anyone help me to unravel the circumstances of their emigration to New Zealand? How could I find out more about the way that my 4 X gr grandparents came to emigrate? I have a letter from way back in 1988 where someone shared with me assisted emigration details for Abraham, his wife, Elizabeth and their three daughters. The letter indicates that the family embarked July 25, 1842. The detail was found in the Public Record Office at Kew in the correspondence between the Poor Law Commissioners and the Hastings Board of Guardians. They were in a record group, at that time, called MH12. Can anyone help with how I might access this material from New Zealand?
     
  2. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Hi Sheryl,

    Have a read of this TNA Research Guide - especially sections 7 & 8 - as a starting point. :)
     
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  3. Sheryl B

    Sheryl B Member

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    Thanks Jan!! I will have a look right now! You are a star!
     
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  4. Sheryl B

    Sheryl B Member

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    There is mention of many letters etc that are already online so now I just need to locate the correct one in the quiet of a Sunday!! Thanks for this excellent tip. It may be very revealing!
     
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  5. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Good luck and happy reading! :D
     
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  6. janetbooth

    janetbooth Top Dog Stalwart

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    Sheryl,

    There is a Family Tree on Ancestry which indicates that Abraham and his family arrived at Nelson on 26 February 1843 aboard "The Thomas Sparks".

    Could the eventual reason he and his family emigrated be something to do with the fact that an Abraham VOLLER was convicted of Larceny at the Hastings Borough Sessions on 25 October 1839, he being aged 35 and sentenced to 2 months imprisonment (source Ancestry). Presumably he hoped for a better life in New Zealand.

    Janet
     
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  7. Sheryl B

    Sheryl B Member

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    Yes Janet, I agree, it certainly had not been a good life for him with regular removals and then this 1839 larceny incident! The newspaper article about this is most interesting in that it gives street addresses for where the family were living at the time of the incident! This is so useful in padding out the meat on the bones of Abraham's life. Jan has put me onto a great resource, above, and I will have a good look at this online resource today and see if I can find out something further about the Assisted Immigration from the St Clements, Hastings Parish that is recorded in a group of records called MH12. It will be interesting to see what is there. I so appreciate fresh eyes looking at this issue and thank you for your help!
     
  8. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

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    The letters in MH 12 are bound into volumes in date order, with a separate set for each poor law union. Most have not been digitised. The National Archives' catalogue helps narrow down the reference number: do an advanced search with the poor law union name as the search term, reference MH 12 and appropriate date range. I prefer to sort results by reference by clicking on 'Browse by reference', rather than plodding through them in order of "relevance" a.k.a randomness.

    It would appear that the volume you want is MH 12/12951, which covers the Hastings PLU from July 1838 to the end of 1842. It says in the catalogue entry that this document hasn't been digitised and can't be downloaded. As you have a specific date for the letter the staff at Kew may be able to copy it for you. Otherwise I think you would need to commission a freelance researcher to photograph the letter for you.
     
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  9. Sheryl B

    Sheryl B Member

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    Wow!! I have not had breakfast yet and you have already discovered so much! That is so helpful. . . I could ask the staff at Kew anyway! The worst thing they can do is say they will not be able to do it and then I could get help from a researcher to see what is in the letter. Thanks so much for this assistance!
     
  10. peterd500

    peterd500 New Member

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    Hi Sheryl

    Contact me at peterd500(at)yahoo(dot)co(dot)nz

    I descend from Richard WARNER who was in one source called Richard VOLLER. He and his wife Eliza WRIGHT took their family from Ore to Nelson arriving 1842 on the ship OLYMPUS. Richards son, Abraham WARNER, after the early death of his mother at Nelson in 1865, was raised out of the family by Mary DOUGLAS. I am confident that the latter was Mary Ann VOLLER one of the daughters of Abraham VOLLER

    Richard WARNER's brother Robert WARNER was called VOLLER at Marriage to Sarah Ann FOORD in 1843.

    Abraham VOLLER was known as Abraham WARNER when each of his three daughters was baptised at Ore parish.

    Sarah Ann VOLLER was the informant at the death of Elizabeth WARNER who Richard WARNER's mother.

    Both Richard WARNER and Abraham VOLLER escaped the Wairau massacre in 1843.

    So, am I a WARNER or a VOLLER?

    Peter in Christchurch
     
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  11. peterd500

    peterd500 New Member

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    Plenty of data below.

    Can this be Abraham?
    IGI Individual Record
    Abraham VOLLER
    Christening: 30 SEP 1804 Widley, Hampshire, England
    Father: John VOLLER
    Mother: Eliz.
    C062161 1738 - 1812 FHL Film 0918878,
    also film 0883873 Parish register printouts of Widley, Hampshire, England ; christenings, 1738-1876


    Baptisms solemnized in the Parish of All Saints Hastings in the County of Sussex in the Year 1819.
    Page 66, No. 519.
    When Baptized: March 10
    Child's Christian Name: Rich.d
    Parents' Christian Names: Joseph & Elizth
    Surname: Warner
    Abode: St Clem[ents]
    Quality, Trade or Profession: Labourer
    By Whom the Ceremony was performed: W. Whistler


    http://www.a2a.org.uk/
    East Sussex Record Office:
    PARISH OF HAILSHAM
    Catalogue Ref. PAR353
    Creator(s): Church of England, Hailsham Parish, East Sussex
    Overseers of the Poor: settlement papers - ref. PAR353/32
    FILE - Settlement examination - ref. PAR353/32/4/14 - date: 2 May 1820
    [from Scope and Content] James WRIGHT married about 14 years ago to Elizabeth and has children James (10 yrs), Henry (8 yrs), Elizabeth (6 yrs), William (4 yrs) and Eliza (3 mths).


    Eliza age 3 months above is the future wife of Richard WARNER.


    http://www.a2a.org.uk/
    East Sussex Record Office
    PARISH OF WINCHELSEA
    Catalogue Ref. PAR511
    Former Catalogue Ref. PAR511
    Creator(s):
    Church of England, Winchelsea Parish, East Sussex
    Settlement - ref. PAR511/32
    Removal orders from Winchelsea
    FILE - Removal order from Winchelsea - ref. PAR511/32/2/81 - date: 29 Nov 1825
    [from Scope and Content] Abraham VOLLER (21) and his sister Ann VOLLER (12); to Titchfield in Hampshire.


    Abraham VOLLER is recorded with the surname VOLLER at marriage, but with the surname WARNER at the baptisms of his three daughters (I sighted then baptisms at the East Sussex County Record Office at Lewes in 1988) , ie,

    01 Aug 1827
    Marriage @ Ore, Sussex, England :
    Abraham VOLLER = Elizabeth JONES

    Elizabeth WARNER bap 07/10/1827 @ Ore, to Abraham & Elizabeth WARNER, Abraham a labourer
    Mary Ann WARNER bap 05/12/1830 @ Ore, to Abraham & Elizabeth WARNER, Abraham a labourer
    Jane WARNER bap 02/10/1834 @ Ore, to Abraham & Elizabeth WARNER, Abraham a labourer

    Mary Ann the daughter above married James MARSH in New Zealand but had a lot of children to Hugh DOUGLAS.


    http://www.a2a.org.uk/
    East Sussex Record Office
    PARISH OF HASTINGS ST CLEMENT
    Catalogue Ref. PAR367 , Former Catalogue Ref. PAR367
    Creator(s): Church of England, Hastings St Clement Parish, East Sussex
    Overseers of the Poor: settlement - ref. PAR367/32
    Removal orders to Hastings St Clement
    FILE - Removal order to Hastings St Clement and settlement examination - ref.PAR367/32/3/230 - date: 20 Dec 1838
    [from Scope and Content] Abraham VOLLER (34), wife Elizabeth, and his children Elizabeth (11), Mary Ann (8) and Jane (3); from Hastings All Saints; fifteen years ago he agreed with William HICKES of Burdett Place, Hastings St Clement, to serve him as a driver to a fly and general servant; left due to ill health and lived with friends at Winchelsea for fifteen months and then went to sea; 11 years ago he was married at Ore to Elizabeth and they have three children
    FILE - Removal order to Hastings St Clement - ref. PAR367/32/3/231 - date: 20 Dec 1838
    [from Scope and Content] Abraham VOLLER, wife Elizabeth, and his children Elizabeth (11), Mary Ann (8) and Jane (3); from Hastings All Saints


    Ancestry.com. England & Wales, Criminal Registers, 1791-1892 [database on-line].
    Class: HO 27; Piece: 59; Page: 258
    County of Sussex. Register of all Persons charged with Indictable Offences at the assizes and sessions held within the County during the Year 1839.
    Name of Offender: Abraham VOLLER
    Degree of Instruction: No. Imp? Jmp?
    Age: 35
    At what Sessions Tried or Discharged without Trial: Hastings Boro' Sessions 25th October
    Offences of which those tried were convicted or Acquitted-and of which those discharged without Trial were charged on Indictment or Committment: Larceny.
    Sentences-
    Imprisonment: 2 months.


    04 Nov 1839, Sussex Advertiser.
    Abraham VOLLER, labourer, aged 35, was indicted for stealing at Hastings, a quilt, part of a testament, some tea cups and saucers, a piece of writing paper, and sundry articles, the property of George GATES. Harriet GATES, the prosecuror's wife, deposed that she resided with the rhusband for some weeks in prisoner's house in Bourne-street,; that in March last, they left, her husband having obtained work on the Dover railroad, and being unable to take their chest, containing, among others, the articles in question,the prisoner VOLLER offered to keep them until witness could pay the carriage, and send a letter to inform him where they should be sent to ; that letters were sent, but no answer received - upon which witness came to hastings, and found the prisoner and his wife residing in a cottage on Fairlight-down, in which she saw various articles which had been securely left locked up in the chest, appropriated to the prisoner's use. In answer to the court, witness denied owing prisoner any money for rent or otherwise. Among thre articles found in prisoner's house was the piece of writing paper, whioch was a certificate from Sir David DAVIES, stating that the witness had acted as nurse in the Queen Dowager's household, during the winter of 1836 and 1837, perfectly to his satisfaction, and recommending her to any one in want of a sober, honest, and good nurse. The court expressed their pleasure at finding witness in possession of such a valuable testimony, and that it had been read aloud. The evidence of george GATES was to the same effect. - William REEVES.


    "Banns of marriage were solemnized between Richard Warner Bachelor and Eliza Wright Spinster both of this parish were published on the three Sundays underwritten that is to say
    On Sunday the 21st of February 1841
    On Sunday the 28th of February 1841
    On Sunday the 7th of March 1841"
    [Ore OPR - Banns 1826-1872 : East Sussex County Record Office PAR435/1/4/2 ]


    13 Mar 1841 Marriage @ St Helens Church, Ore, Hastings, England by Geo.S.FAUGHT, Curate :
    Richard WARNER (full age, bachelor, blacksmith, father Joseph WARNER labourer)
    = Eliza WRIGHT (full age,spinster, father James WRIGHT labourer)
    Witnesses William GILES & Elizabeth HEAD.
    Richard, Eliza, William & Elizabeth all signed ‘X’ his/her mark.
    [ BDM @ St Catherine’s House London 1988 ]


    06 Jun 1841 Census of England & Wales
    @ ??? White School, Guestling Rd, Ore, Sussex
    Abraham WELLER (VOLLER?) 35 Ag Lab Y
    Betsy WELLER (VOLLER?) 30 Y
    Betsy WELLER (VOLLER?) 13 Y
    Jane WELLER (VOLLER?) 06 Y


    06 Jun 1841 English Census
    Ore Parish - County Sussex, Baldstow Hundred, Super-Registrar’s of District Hastings, Registrars’s District of Ore ; includes Public Institution, the Hastings union Workhouse.
    ( yes = born in County )
    @ Prospect Cottages, Ore, Sussex
    James WRIGHT 60 Ag. Lab. yes
    Elizabeth WRIGHT 60 yes
    Aaron WRIGHT 15 yes
    Amelia WRIGHT 09 yes
    Richard WARNER 20 Blacksmith yes
    Eliza WARNER 20 yes
    Richard WARNER 3 months yes


    James & Elizabeth WRIGHT above are Eliza WRIGHT's parents. Joseph & Elizabeth WARNER below are Richard WARNER's parents. WARNER is Richard's brother.


    06 Jun 1841 Census of England & Wales
    N=not born in county Y=born in county
    @ ???? Cottages, All Saints, Hastings, Sussex
    Joseph WARNER 70 N
    Elizabeth WARNER 60 N
    Robert WARNER 18 Y
    Samuel DUNT? HUNT? 13 Sweep Y


    Eliza WRIGHT’s brother, William WRIGHT, was transported to Van Dieman’s Land for theft for 14 years (2 x 7 years for two charges of theft). He was convicted at the Lewes assizes of 03 Jan 1842. In his own words at the Tasmania end (Tasmanian Archives), one of William’s crimes was stealing his sister’s watch (!!!). The implication from the articles below is that the sister was in fact Eliza, her husband Richard WARNER therefore also being known as Richard VOLLER. English law at the time regarded Eliza's property as her husband's property.


    Monday 20 December 1841 , Sussex Advertiser , East Sussex, England
    Prisoners committed to the Lewes House of Correction since our last for trial at the Assizes:- ...... Wm. WRIGHT, by F. North, Esq., charged with stealing on the 9th Dec. inst, at Ore, one silver watch value 30s, the property of Richard VOLLER.....


    Monday 10 January 1842 , Sussex Advertiser , East Sussex, England
    EAST SUSSEX SESSIONS.
    ..... TUESDAY.
    [Before the Earl of Chichester.]
    .....TRIALS OF PRISONERS.
    .....William WRIGHT, labourer, 23, and William Bevington, tinman and brazier, 18, were indicted for stealing at Brighton lbe3oih December, two pairs value 12s, the properly John Manneiing.-Not Guilty,
    .....William WRIGHT, seaman, 22, was indicted for stealing at Ore, on the 9ih December, one silver watch, value 30s, the goods and chattels of Richard VOLLER . -Fourteen years' transportation.....

    ------------------
    http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?detail=1&type=C&id=78939
    Convict Details
    Wright, William
    Convict No: 78939
    Extra Identifier:
    SEE Surname:
    SEE Given Names:
    Voyage Ship: Moffatt (3)
    Voyage No: 205
    Arrival Date: 28 Nov 1842
    Departure Date: 14 Aug 1842
    Departure Port: Portsmouth
    Conduct Record: CON33/1/32
    Muster Roll:
    Appropriation List:
    Other Records:
    Indent: CON14/1/17
    Description List:
    Remarks:

    Item Number: CON14/1/17 View this record online
    Description: Kinnear 23 Oct 1842, Emily 24 Nov 1842, Moffatt 28 Nov 1842
    Further Description: Arranged by the first letter of the convict's surname within the list for the ship on which they arrived
    Start Date: 23 Oct 1842
    End Date: 28 Nov 1842
    Access: Open
    Location: HOB
    Copy Number: Z2500

    CON14/1/17
    Number: 7909
    Name: WRIGHT William
    Where tried: Sussex Lewes G. Q. S.
    When tried: 3 January 1842
    Height: 5 / 7 / 2
    Age: 22
    Sentence: 14 2 ?????
    Religion: ??
    Read or write: B?
    Married or Single: S
    Children:
    Statement of Offence: Obtaining goods under false pretences viz ; duck trousers from a [shop? ship?] man & A WATCH FROM MY SISTER.
    Surgeon's Report:
    Trade: Plo'man [ Ploughman?] & Labourer.
    Native Place: Elsham nr Lewes.
    Remarks: F James? at Hastings B Hry S Eliza ?????


    [Elsham nr above will mean Hailsham near Lewes]
    --------------------


    23 Mar 1842 Application for Emigration #5980
    [ National Archives - REPRO 6, Nelson papers NZC 234/2 ]
    VOLLER, Abraham & Elizabeth / 32 & 31 yrs / Ag. Labourer & bricklayer quarryman / 3 daughters.
    Also from Oare :
    EARLE, Richard & filly/32 & 32 yrs / brickmaker / 2 sons, 1 daughter
    #5390 WARNER, Richard & Eliza, both 23 yrs, quarryman & blacksmith, residence Oare, near Hastings. One son, aged 1 year. Selected by M.Gillingham. Embarkation #2443.


    1066 Genealogy web site:
    http://www.rootschat.com/history/hastings/content/view/64/28/
    Parish Register Extracts
    Ore - St Helens Church - Marriages 1813 - 1878
    25 Apr 1843
    Robert VOLLER
    = Sarah Ann FOORD


    I think the above Robert VOLLER is Richard WARNER's brother and Sarah Ann is Sarah An VOLLER the informant at the death of Elizabeth WARNER, Richard and Robert's mother.


    Copy of a receipt issued to Abraham VOLLER by Captain WAKEFIELD. Original held at National Archives, papers NZC 234/2
    Immigration Office, Nelson, March 3rd 1843. I hereby certify that Abraham VOLLER and George MILLER
    cook and cooks mate on board the "Thomas Sparks" have to the best of my knowledge and
    judgement faithfully discharged the dutie of their office and are thereby entitled in terms of their
    appointment to receive in remuneration the sum of six pounds one and eight pence. Abraham signed
    with an "x". Also noted was Mrs VOLLER appointed the female hospital mate during one month for
    which she is entitled to receive 10 shillings.


    http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/
    Nelson Examiner and New Zealand Chronicle, Volume II, Issue 102, 17 February 1844, Page 403
    LIST of PERSONS qualified to serve as JURORS, in the district of Nelson, New Zealand.
    Name, Residence, Calling.
    …. DILLON Thomas, Bridge Street, butcher, ….
    …. Abraham VOLLER, Auckland Point, Boatman, ….


    5 August 1843 "Nelson Examiner" - A list of men who fought in the Wairua Massacre included the name Abraham VOLLARD, occupation Boatman. Shirley TURKINGTON viewed the original report and because of the way that the reporter wrote the name VOLLER has been mistaken for VOLLARD.


    http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/
    Nelson Examiner and New Zealand Chronicle, Volume III, Issue 119, 15 June 1844, Page 59
    - also has Abraham VOLLER, R. WARNER, KERR, MCARTNEY, etc
    Nelson Examiner and New Zealand Chronicle, Volume III, Issue 119, 15 June 1844, Page 59
    PETITION TO PARLIAMENT.


    1845 - ,Abraham VOLLER wife and 2 daughters in census for Nelson, Abraham on Electoral Roll for
    Nelson.


    1847 Abraham VOLLER on Jury list for Wellington (Boulcott St) not on Nelson Jury list.
    1848/49 Abraham VOLLER on Jury list for Wellington (Lambton Quay) not on Nelson Jury list.
    1850 Abraham VOLLER on Jury list for Wellington (Willis St).
    1851 Abraham VOLLER on Jury List for Nelson and not the Wellington one.
    1852 Abraham VOLLER on Nelson Jury List
    1858 Abraham VOLLER on electoral roll for Nelson (Haven Road) Householder Sect. 37
    1868 Abraham VOLLER on electoral roll for Nelson (Haven Road) Householder Sect. 37
    1871 Abraham VOLLER on electoral roll for Nelson (Haven Road) Householder Sect. 37


    30 Mar 1851 English Census
    @ The Down, Ore, Sussex
    Robert WARNER Head Marr 30 Ag. Lab b. Hastings
    Sarah Ann WARNER Wife Marr 28 b. Battle
    Harriet WARNER Dau 07 Scholar b. Ore
    Maria WARNER Dau 01 b. Ore


    16 Jul 1851 Death of Joseph WARNER @ the Union Workhouse, Ore, male, 85 years, labourer, old age.
    Informant Joseph SHOESMITH [‘X’], Union Workhouse, Ore, present at the death.
    Registered 17 Jul 1851, John CLOKE, registrar
    [BDM]


    09 Nov 1851
    Death of Elizabeth WARNER @ Ore, female, 73 years. General decay, dropsy.
    Widow of Joseph WARNER, labourer. Informant Sarah Ann VOLLER,present at the death, Ore.
    Registered 11/11/1851, John CLOKE, registrar. [ BDM ]


    Birth &Baptism of Abraham WARNER at Nelson, NZ:


    23 Feb 1859 Birth of a boy to Richard & Eliza WARNER nee WRIGHT, father a labourer.
    Informant Richard WARNER ‘his X mark’, labourer, Nelson.
    Registered 24/03/1859, Deputy Registrar Robt PICKETT [ BDM ]


    03 Apr 1859 Abraham WARNER baptised to Richard & Eliza WARNER, born 24/03/1859
    [ Diocese of Nelson Baptismal Registers - The Anglican Centre, 48 Halifax St, Nelson, NZ ]


    http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cg...=17&e=-------100-TC-1-byDA---0warner-ARTICLE-
    Colonist, Volume VIII, Issue 786, 9 May 1865, Page 2
    DEATHS.
    WARNER.— May 7. at The Wood, Eliza, wife of Mr. Richard WARNER, aged 45 years.


    Newspaper report - Nelson Evening Mail - 28 Dec 1875 :
    "Inquest report on the body of Abraham, alias Jerry VOLLER, who was found dead lying in the mud at the back of the Custom House Hotel early this morning. Verdict - found drowned. Funeral to leave from the residence of Mr MILLER, Waimea Rd"
    Nelson Mail - 30 December 1875 -
    An inquest was held at the Port this afternoon after the body of
    Abraham VOLLER known as Jerry VOLLER, who was found lying dead in the mud at the back of the
    Custom House Hotel early this morning. He had been employed at odd jobs at the Hotel yesterday
    and was last seen early in the evening in a state of intoxication, and it is supposed that he must have
    fallen over from the landing at high tide into deep water as he relieved himself as his fly was undone
    when he was pulled from the water. A verdict of "Found Drowned" was returned.
    [The coroners report is held at National Archives]
    Papers Past
    http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/
    Marlborough Express, Volume XI, Issue 776, 1 January 1876, Page 6
    An inquest was held at the Port on Tuesday afternoon, touching the death of Abraham VOLLER, a very old settler, whose body was found on the beach early that morning. The deceased, who was generally known as Jerry VOLLER, was last seen on the previous evening, and it is generally supposed that whilst in a state of intoxication he must have fallen into the tideway near the Custom House Hotel. A verdict was returned that he was found drowned. — Colonist 30th.
    http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/8942292
    The Mercury (Hobart, Tas. : 1860 - 1954), Monday 10 January 1876, Page 3.
    One of the oldest of the Nelson settlers, a man named Abraham VOLLER, was recently drowned. He arrived in the colony by the Thomas Parkes [sic - s/be Thomas Sparks] in 1842, and, except for a few months when he assisted to establish the first settlement of Wellington, VOLLER has resided in Nelson. He was one of the survivors of the historical Wairau massacre, and was one of the crew that helped Captain CARKEEK to sail a craft of 32 tons burden from England to Adelaide in the early days.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    H. M. Cutter RANGER - captain Carkeek.
    http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/biography_search?page=122
    Stewart, Frances Ann
    1840–1916
    Social activist
    Frances Ann Carkeek was born on 18 June 1840 at Sydney, Australia. She was the daughter of Martha Piotti and her husband, Stephen Carkeek, commander of a revenue cutter. The family moved to Nelson, New Zealand, after Stephen Carkeek was appointed sub-collector of customs there in 1842.


    16 Aug 1892 Marriage @ the residence of Mr James ARGYLL, Carterton. Minister William ROWSE.
    Abraham WARNER, 32, surveyor, bachelor, present residence Carterton, usual residence Waitotora,
    born @ Nelson, parents Richard & Mary WARNER nee DOUGLAS**, father an engineer
    = Jane Winifred PETERS, 23, spinster, present & usual residence Carterton, born @ Carterton,
    parents James & Alice PETERS nee FORD [ BDM 2353 ]


    05 Sep 1938 Death of Abraham WARNER @ Northcote Private Hospital Palmerston North.
    Aged 82 years, retired farmer, usual residence 36 St John’s Avenue Palmerston North, in NZ life.
    Born @ Nelson, parents Richard & Mary WARNER nee DOUGLAS**. No widow,
    Married @ Carterton age 32 to Jane Winifred PETERS Living issue M. 41, 36 F. 45, 42, 49, 29.
    Died of coronary thrombosis 15 minutes, athermatous disease of blood vessels years, retention of urine due to prostatic obstruction 10 days, operation supra-pubic drain 25/08/1938 & operation prostatectomy 02/09/1938. Certified by J. MILLER, last saw deceased 05/09/1938.
    Buried 07/09/1938 @ Waverley [ BDM ]


    Obituary - ‘Wanganui Chronicle’ newspaper 12/09/1938
    "Mr Abraham Warner -
    The death took place at Palmerston North recently after a brief illness of Mr Abraham Warner, an old resident of the Momahaki district.
    The late Mr Warner was the youngest son of the late Mr Richard Warner, a well-known settler of the Nelson district. It was there that the late Mr Abraham Warner was born. He spent his youth in the Nelson district, and came to Wanganui in 1875 to join his brothers, Robert and Henry, who were farming in the Brunswick district on a property owned by the late Mr Robert Thatcher and now occupied by Mr Cave.
    Later Mr Warner was engaged in survey work in the Waitotara districts under the district surveyor, Mr John Annabell. In those days there were no roads in the back country of the Waitotara district, and all travelling had to be done by canoe or on foot. It took three days by canoe to travel from the Waitotara Township to Kaimanuka, a journey which can be done in three days [sic] today. The Maori settlements which then existed up the river have since disappeared.
    The late Mr Warner spent about 10 years in the employment of the Government Survey Department, living under canvas swagging gear from place to place through virgin bush, travelling along rivers by canoe, and hunting wild cattle and pigs for fresh meat. In those happy days he gained a wide knowledge of birds and bush.
    In 1890 the late Mr Warner married Miss Jane Winifred Peters, youngest daughter of the late Mr James Peters, one of the founders of Carterton. About this time he gave up survey work and took over the management of the late Mr George Pearce’s Moumahaki farm. He continued to reside in the district until about two years ago when he shifted to Palmerston North where his son, Mr Douglas Warner, was living.
    The late Mr Warner was predeceased by his wife in 1928. He is survived by two sons, Messrs D.G. Warner (Palmerston North) and S.A. Warner (Waitotara), and four daughters, Mesdames I Featherston (Kimbolton), I.M. Smith (Dunedin), I. Potts (Otaki), and Miss M. Warner (Palmerston North)."
     
  12. peterd500

    peterd500 New Member

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    Hi @Sheryl B

    You still reading this stuff? Email me at peterd500 AT yahooDOT co DOT nz for the juicy details regarding the revelations below

    Have made a massive breakthrough. Abraham VOLLER's parents John VOLLER & Elizabeth WARNER married at Durley Hampshire in 1803. They were removed to John's settlement parish Titchfield from Durley in 1809. John shot through and Elizabeth later had sons baptised Richard and Robert when co-habiting with Joseph RONALDS in Hastings. Elizabeth and Joseph married at St Mary in the Castle in Kent 1822 a month after Robert's baptism.

    On 25 Nov 1825 at Winchelsea the family suffered three removals in three directions as a result of the settlement laws in force which broke the family up.
    Elizabeth when she married John VOLLER automatically acquired his settlement parish as her settlement parish and when she married Joseph she automatically acquired his settlement parish as hers.

    Joseph and Elizabeth were removed to his settlement parish Hambledon in Hampshire.
    Elizabeth's children to John VOLLER, Abraham VOLLER and his sister Ann VOLLER, were removed to Titchfield as you have already discovered, because they still had their father's settlement status.
    Richard (5) & Robert (3) were removed to Hastings. Presumably their illegitimacy had some kind of effect under laws governing legal settlement.

    So heartless but presumably done by the book, an occasion on which the law was truly an ass.

    Richard and Robert have to be the sons of Richard & Elizabeth WARNER who now turn out to be Joseph RONALDS and Elizabeth WARNER.

    The above makes Abraham VOLLER and Richard WARNER half brothers with a 15 year gap between them. Abraham was baptised 1804, Richard 1819 and Robert 1822. Abraham's brother William was baptised at Titchfield 1811 and sister Ann was born about 1813 possibly at Titchfield. William married Ann WARNER the daughter of Robert WARNER who was born at Durley and is very likely a brother to Elizabeth ROLANDS ex VOLLER nee WARNER.

    The story passed down the generations was that Richard's son Abraham WRNER born 1859 ay Nelson was raised out of the family after his mother Eliza's early death in 1865. When he married he gave his mother as Mary DOUGLAS. Mary DOUGLAS should be Abraham VOLLER's daughter Mary Ann VOLLER baptised 1830 at Ore (as WARNER!) who was 29 years older than Abraham. If Abraham VOLLER and Richard WARNER were half brothers then Mary Ann VOLLER (DOUGLAS) and Abraham WARNER were first cousins even though Abraham thought of her as his mother.

    There was only ever one WARNER at family so that Elizabeth WARNER born about 1788 surely belongs to them. John & Ann WARNER had children John 1781, Mary 1782 (buried 1804 Durley), Abraham 1785 (buried Durley 1854 after death at the workhouse in Droxford) and Robert 1788 baptised at Durley. Son John had three daughters to his wife Elizabeth baptised 1807, 1811, 1813 at Durley. There are no WARNER baptised at Durley before or after that family nor concurrently with them, and there are no WARNER in the Durley censuses. Elizabeth if she was part of that family must have been born out of Durley, and given that there was no WARNER presence at Durley before that family (and there is no marriage at Durley for John & Ann), the origins of these WARNER must lie elsewhere.

    Peter

    (Email address munged to deter spammers)
     

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