Ward family of Belper

Discussion in 'Derbyshire' started by annabel, Feb 26, 2022.

  1. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    With lots of help, major headway was made in my Fincham puzzle, still ongoing. (Thread here)

    But I'm scratching my head over Elizabeth Ward, 1762 to 1822 who married in 1781 in Beccles with a witness of Charlotte Ward. After researching the address where she lived in Wood Street, Cheapside, I am pretty sure that she was connected with the Ward family of Ward, Brettle and Ward who were there at the time. They were hosiers who came from Belper, and her son worked for them

    John Ward, and his sons John 1765-1841 and William 1775 -1833 were co owners of this company. i know she is not John Ward sr's daughter Elizabeth as she married Mr Sharp. I know she is not Elizabeth the daughter of Richard Ward, John sr's brother, and Elizabeth because this Elizabeth was still Elizabeth Ward in his 1815 will.

    I cannot find anything about a Charlotte Ward, I'm thinking she could be a sister. There are lots of Elizabeths, but less Charlottes so she is probably the key. I wonder if anyone might be able to find any record of a likely Charlotte Ward?
     
  2. Andromeda

    Andromeda Well-Known Member

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    Just a quick clarification - she married John Fincham at St George, Colegate, Norwich, Norfolk on 25 Dec 1781.
     
  3. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    Sorry yes, then they went for a trip to Beccles :)
     
  4. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    I may be barking up the wrong tree, but I've spotted this
    Screenshot 2022-03-05 at 13.59.26.png which is at the marriage of a Charlotte Ward to Thomas Lamb in 1792 at St Martin at Palace, Norwich. To me it looks the same as the signature of the Charlotte at Elizabeth Ward's marriage
    Screenshot 2022-03-05 at 14.04.26.png The slightly odd O and the wiggles on the W in particular.
    Does the team think this is likely?

    Thomas Lamb was born in 1770 which is a bit late, they had a son Thomas in 1802. Other than that Charlotte Ann is proving difficult to find
     
    Ma-dotcom and Daft Bat like this.
  5. Andromeda

    Andromeda Well-Known Member

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    I'll start with the caveat that handwriting tended to be quite 'standardised' (I remember being taught cursive by a very rigid headmaster!), I agree that the two signatures do appear to be in the same hand. The flourish on the W and the length of the upward tail in the d in Ward are almost identical.
     
  6. Andromeda

    Andromeda Well-Known Member

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    If he's the man who was buried in 1814 aged 43 (c1771) then Norfolk archives has the 1815 probate of the will of Thomas Lamb of Norwich, builder. Might throw out some further clues?

    The burial of Charlotte Lamb in 1835 puts her YoB as c1759
     
  7. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    Great, I'll have a look at this. I'm looking at that Charlotte, who appears to be the one baptised to Michael and Elizabeth in 1761 which makes her perfect age to be a witness. The mother's name is a positive, I can't see a birth of an Elizabeth to them though
     
  8. Andromeda

    Andromeda Well-Known Member

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    Another possibility is in the records of the British Lying-In Hospital, Endell Street, Holborn.

    Born 17 Sep 1759 & baptised on 30 Sep 1759, Charlotte d/o Jane Ward aged 40, wife of John Ward, Porter of Barking London. Recommended by Lewis Mendes.

    A quick search for Lewis Mendes brings up a London Gazette record from 2 Feb 1771 regarding a bankruptcy. This says he was a merchant, and gives his address as Crutched Fryars, London. The closest I can find is Crutched Friars, which is about a mile from Wood Street.
     
  9. Andromeda

    Andromeda Well-Known Member

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    Hmm John & Jane Ward did have a daughter named Elizabeth, but she was born/baptised 1752, which is 10 years too early for 'your' Elizabeth. Their address at the time was Crutched Fryars.
     
  10. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    Whether correct or not, this is very interesting and I'm been off down a big rabbit hole. Lewis Mendes crops up a lot in old books, as does Crutched Friars and various John Wards of that road. It seems there was a connection with drapers, similar to hosiers.

    I wonder, as the only evidence of her age is her death, could her family have thought she was 10 years younger than she was or is that too much of a stretch? There might not have been anyone else in London who would know. If born in 1852 she would have been 42 when her last child was born. The man I accuse of being her husband was supposedly born 1757. And the women found so far mostly married aged about 30.
     
  11. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Gentlemens Monthly Intelligencer Vol 39 1770 reports the death of a Lewis Mendes, Merchant of Crutched Friars London, Sept 1770.
     
  12. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Crutched Friars was a street that ran east-west from Poor Jewry Lane to the east end of Hart Street above Seething Lane. When Stow wrote, most of Crutched Friars was known as Hart Street, so Stow only uses the name Crutched Friars to refer to Crutched Friars Priory (Harben). Since Stow does not name the street that ran from Aldgate to Woodroffe Lane, it could have been known as Hart Street, Crutched Friars, or something different. By 1754, Hart Street only extended west from the north end of Seething Lane to Mark Lane, with Crutched Friars running west from near the City Wall to Seething Lane (see Benjamin Cole’s 1754 engraving of Tower Street Ward [Cole] and Richard Blome’s 1720 engraving of Aldgate Ward [Blome]).
    Crutched Friars is visible on the Agas map but is labelled with its Tudor name, Herte Str.
    Ref: mapoflondon.uvic.ca
     
  13. Andromeda

    Andromeda Well-Known Member

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    The index to death duty registers name this man's executor as Elizabeth Lamb of Norwich, so perhaps this is a different Thomas?
     
  14. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    Rats!
     

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