Taken from a marriage cert from Scotland's People what do you read the maiden surname as? I think I have an idea but would appreciate another pair of eyes, or two, giving me their opinion. Thanks
Sorry I did not make it clear - yes it is Margaret McIntyre, it is the name underneath (which I think is the maiden name) that I am not sure of. I did try to enlarge it but it just blurs so no use.
I read the first bit as M. sn for maiden surname. On Ancestry's Scotland, Select Marriages 1561-1910 there is - Margaret Mckinnon marrying Moses Mcintyre in Buchanan, Stirling on the 30th July 1847 - is this the couple?
From the Marriage cert the father (ie Margaret McKinnon's husband) is given as Peter McIntyre - but I could not find a marriage for Peter and Margaret, and come to that, the birth of their son John supposedly in Portree Inverness c1843. But, with little, nay no, knowledge of Scotland's geography every place I found had to be referred to Mr Google's maps and I kept getting distracted
Have you been able to find John or parents on censuses before his marriage? Do you have pob for parents? (Freecen is quite good for Scottish records in 1841 and 51).
I did look last night (on FMP), without much luck, no John with parents Peter and Margaret. John is a widower when he marries Margaret Coutts in 1880 John McIntyre can be found in 1881 living with his wife's father (James Coutts b1820) in Crathie. Margaret is listed with her maiden name of Coutts even though it is the year after her marriage I have found one on Anc & Freecen (thanks for the tip) - a grandson of Malcolm and Sally - not sure how the ref's work for Scottish census piece SCT1851/115 place Sleat, enumeration District 5, folio 81 page 1 schedule 1 - and the servant is a Marion McKinnon Edit:- FMP transcription has Margaret as Coutts in 1881 - Anc have her as McIntyre
I've been pondering this. Grandson John in 1851 above seems a reasonable possibility (assuming John was accurate about his age in later censuses) so this family must be worth investigating. It's a pity that the patchy availability of records makes this so difficult. I can see the family in 1841 plus a few baptisms on FS, but no Peter so far. Have you been able to find John in 1861 or 1871, possibly with his first wife? His first marriage cert would be very useful! Also his death cert should give parents, assuming he died in Scotland, though the info is only as good as the informant's knowledge. I'll carry on thinking...
Thanks for your input Grizel, below is something I typed up yesterday but forgot to press the reply button In answer, to whether I have found John McIntyre in '61 or '71, is no. I have looked, but James gives his father's occupation as soldier on his m/c, but as John died before 1881 (and I have not looked for a death yet), he would not have know John very well, and it could be he was a soldier before he married Margaret Coutts. My search is for James Coutts Mcintyre born c1879 in Crathie. He marries in London and names his father as John McIntyre, but there is a James Lamont on the 1881 census listed as grandson to James Coutts with John and Margaret McIntyre. I think this is 'my' James Coutts McIntyre but it appears he is not the biological son of John McIntyre. Scotland's people show a birth of a James Coutts in Crathie in 1880 but I used the last of my credits on the marriage cert for John McIntyre and Margaret Coutts. Margaret Mcintyre is a widow by 1891, living at Bridge Place, St Cuthberts, Edinburgh with James age 12, John age 10 and a 'step daughter' Jessie Ann Coutts (who I think is a niece), by 1901 James is in London.
Thanks for that. Just looking at the index pages on SP, there is a birth of a James Alexander Coutts and also of a James Alexander Lamont in 1878 in Crathie both with the same ref no. I don't know if a ref no is unique making James Alexander registered under both names. You would need to look at the actual record to find out. The James Coutts b1880 appears to be with parents James and Marjory in 1881. The only James Lamont in 1881 is the one you have with the Mcintyres. James John Lamont b1879 is with parents. The only prob with the theory is the middle name Alexander, though maybe he never used it.There are some deaths in later years for James Alexander Coutts and James Alexander Lamont in other parts of Scotland, but none in Crathie and not necessarily the right age . So more checking might be needed. However my guess is that you are correct with James not being John's biological son and his father being a Lamont. I can't see a marriage though. Looking at Lamont deaths in Crathie around that time there is a James Lamont age 48 dying in 1879 who could be a candidate for the father. All very interesting!
I really am going to have get some more credits, I had not noticed the two birth records with the same number - thank you for that, and the follow up work. This is not my family, but something I am doing for a relation's paternal side. The name Coutts has always been something they had wanted to discover the origin of, especially as today (and for many years) has been connected to banking! I do not think she will be surprised to find it is not banking but ag. lab.ing
I just had to see those b/c's and you were correct Grizel the b/c states James Alexander is the illegitimate son of Margaret Coutts (domestic servant) and William Lamond (farm labourer) Even though the entry gives the surname as Lamont, William signs Lamond So I am certain now that John McIntyre is not the father
Looking on F.Search I found: James Alexander Coutts Scotland Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950 birth:15 April 1881 St. Peter, Dundee, Angus, Scotland residence:1881:Scotland father:James Coutts mother:Isabella Mcglishan Coutts ..................... James A.Coutts:Son England and Wales Census, 1901 birth:1878 Scotland residence:Islington, London, Middlesex, England 31 March 1901 father Donald Coutts mother:Margaret Coutts other:Charlotte A. Coutts, John Coutts, Albert Coutts, Charles Coutts, Arthur Coutts ..............Probably neither being the one you need, however another name dangled at me : Gordon James Coutts-Mcintyre England and Wales Birth Registration Index Name Gordon James Coutts-Mcintyre Event Type Birth Registration Registration Quarter Oct-Nov-Dec. 1906 Registration District St. George Hanover Square London Event Place St. George Hanover Square, London, England 1A- 408 Cannot find this on Ancesties Church records, only this one below... Name: James Coutts McIntyre Registration Year: 1905 Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec Registration district: St George Hanover Square Jessie Butten Jessie Butters Emily Hooker...
